I play the piano Dan but the same thing applies if you own a Ferrari it doesn't make you a racing driver, great instruments only are great in the hands of accomplished practitioners.
I'm not a big Leica fan either but I'd argue that a great tool gets you on the road of success much faster.I always was suspicious of people who said:'it's not the camera ;it's the photographer'or 'a good photographer can make great images with any camera'Why is it then that all the people saying this own expensive cameras?I find it much easier to make good images with good cameras.
I play the piano Dan but the same thing applies if you own a Ferrari it doesn't make you a racing driver, great instruments only are great in the hands of accomplished practitioners.
And by the way, Leitz Wetzlar, in the past, was an actual professional camera manufacturer, with widespread use among the pros. Now, they are just a niche player catering for the collectors, and rich amateurs (amateur in the sense of "person has a love of photography and thus cultivates it"). Canon and Nikon, on the other hand, were and still are professional camera manufacturers. They still manufacture pro cameras and pro lenses, which are still selling pretty well. The low-end is another business altogether.
Fascinating....I guess.
Couple of points of retort, you can easily swap one of your statements around to read ( professional in the sense of "person has a love of photography and thus cultivates it and gets paid damn good for it").
The other thing, I used to also be annoyed by the whole snobby Leica thing, then I tried a pair out for a special project. Bam! Now I see why my friends who shoot for Magnum, the NYT and other pros use them. When a slightly curved scalpel of unparalleled sharpness is in the master surgeon's hands, the result is beyond the judgement of the layman.
I use an M3, M6 and M240 in Leica and only have three lenses, a 28, 35 and 50. Say what you will but this is a simply brilliant system with photography being brought to bear in it's simplest path.
And to the OP, yes, once you give an M a proper try, Barnacks will make a make an exit for the door.
Leicas don't have any magical powers and as long as you bear in mind owning a Stradivarius makes one a Stradivarius owner, not a concert violinist.
A proper comparison would perhaps be to compare a (very expensive) Gibson Les Paul Supreme ($5300) model to a Parker Fly guitar ($3500). The former is more "prestigious" than the other but the latter is as good as a guitar, or maybe even better, having much more modern material and technology. But in both cases, the quality of the sound will be limited by the player, not by the guitar.
Hit a high end tube Class A amp with the Paul and then plug the Parker and you will be ready to vomit in about 30 seconds.
The current Gibsons, Fenders are inferior when compared to the ones made up until the 1960 but still carry some of the original tonal charm and quality.
Same for PRS, after 1990 they race to the bottom.
,Fascinating....I guess.
Couple of points of retort, you can easily swap one of your statements around to read ( professional in the sense of "person has a love of photography and thus cultivates it and gets paid damn good for it").
The other thing, I used to also be annoyed by the whole snobby Leica thing, then I tried a pair out for a special project. Bam! Now I see why my friends who shoot for Magnum, the NYT and other pros use them. When a slightly curved scalpel of unparalleled sharpness is in the master surgeon's hands, the result is beyond the judgement of the layman.
I use an M3, M6 and M240 in Leica and only have three lenses, a 28, 35 and 50. Say what you will but this is a simply brilliant system with photography being brought to bear in it's simplest path.
And to the OP, yes, once you give an M a proper try, Barnacks will make a make an exit for the door.
Unfortunately a lot of people buy a Leica because they are convinced it has some kind of magical power (the infamous "Leica Glow") that will make all the pictures appear "different" and "better".
They think that for a reason, Leica does have remarkable attributes that in the right hands, has helped make amazing images the best they can possibly be. What you are saying, great gear in the hands of the rank and file enthusiast, that can be said of most any camera.
Leica is legendary and there is no changing that. I can't understand why this is even up for debate unless all one does is look at Flickr all day.
,
I have a IIIb, a M3, a M4-P and a M5, I challenge you to recognise which picture here has been taken with the M4-P and which one with the F-1N:
I can also post other images taken with Nikons and Pentax.
Flawless logic.
Unfortunately a lot of people buy a Leica because they are convinced it has some kind of magical power (the infamous "Leica Glow") that will make all the pictures appear "different" and "better".
As a guitarist I must say you lost any credibility comparing a Les Paul (by the way...the Supreme? WTF! I would have expected something like a Custom Shop Reissue R0, or a Custom R7 but...a Supreme?) with an horrid insectoid exoskeleton like the Parker!
Leica is legendary and there is no changing that.
So is Nikon. (Nikon SP, Nikon F, exotic lenses)
So is Canon (50/0.95 lens, F-1, fluorite lenses)
So is Pentax (Spotmatic, 6x7 system, auto 110, LX)
...
As John Lennon said in "Instant Karma":
"What the hell do you think you are? A superstar? Well, alright you are! Well we all shine on..."
Porsche Speedster = F-1N
Leicas don't have any magical powers and as long as you bear in mind owning a Stradivarius makes one a Stradivarius owner, not a concert violinist.
I have nothing against Leica cameras, indeed I know they are first class instruments, but I don't fool myself (as many novices do) that owning one would solve all my photographic inadequacies.I like this, well said. I had an M2 with two Summicron lens back in the late 80's to mid 90's. Superb little camera and what can I say about the optics? Simply superb. I'd love an M4 or M6 today but not at the prices I'm seeing.
Clive I worked at leading U.K professional dealers who were Leica Professional stockists for around twenty three years, and have used and sold more Leica cameras, lenses, and binoculars than you've had hot dinners.Have you ever used one?
Clive I worked at leading U.K professional dealers who were Leica Professional stockists for around twenty three years, and have used and sold more Leica cameras, lenses, and binoculars than you've had hot dinners.
Hmmm... I don't think so. The Speedster was a lightweight, simple car with a potent 4-cam engine. The New F-1 is large, heavy, and reasonably complex in what it could do (e.g. its metering and modes).
I think some people (especially SOME Leica customers) are still convinced that the camera makes the photographer and not the other way around, besides that for many Leica is not just a camera but a sort of status symbol,
A Leica can be an outstanding camera or a completely useless camera; it depends on how/what you photograph. There's probably nothing wrong with you.
Not larger than a Nikon F2 (another really great camera), not heavier than it, and as for complexity, i'd say it's not complex.
Leicas don't have any magical powers and as long as you bear in mind owning a Stradivarius makes one a Stradivarius owner, not a concert violinist.
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