I forgot to buy HCA or Permawash but I have Sodium Sulfite

Are they essentially the same thing? How much should I put in per liter before my long wash, and how many 8x10 prints can I treat this way?

Thanks!
-Jarin

Make a 2% solution and use it for one session only. The capacity is the same, but the keeping properties aren't. It may become cloudy if mixed with tap water.

Here is the formula I use:

Water (125F) 750ml
Sodium Sulfite 200g
Sodium Bisulfite 1g
EDTA* 10g
Water to make 1L

*EDTA is added to prevent hard water precipitant from forming during use and may be left out if not needed.

I use this for fiber paper, only. I do not use HCA with film. Mix this stock solution 1:9 with water and shuffle prints in the working solution for 3-4 mins, then wash as usual.

Thanks! I don't have Sodium Bisulfite or EDTA. But for a single session, a working solution of 20g Sodium Sulfite in a liter of distilled water should work well for around 30 prints? Wash 45 minutes afterward?

-Jarin

I'd just follow the instructions that come with Kodak HCA. I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Jarin Blaschke said:

Thanks! I don't have Sodium Bisulfite or EDTA. But for a single session, a working solution of 20g Sodium Sulfite in a liter of distilled water should work well for around 30 prints? Wash 45 minutes afterward?

-Jarin

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That should work just fine. 30 prints may be pushing it. If it were me, I'd do less prints and mix fresh. Wash is fine.

Jarin Blaschke said:

Thanks! I don't have Sodium Bisulfite or EDTA. But for a single session, a working solution of 20g Sodium Sulfite in a liter of distilled water should work well for around 30 prints? Wash 45 minutes afterward?
-Jarin

Click to expand...

I follow Dr. Rudman's recipe - 1 liter water, 20-30 grams Sodium Sulfite (about a half film vial), "a handful" of table salt. I use like 1/4 cup or less since undissolved salt is abrasive.

I don't think the other ingredients are that necessary for DIY, some stuff is likely in there for shelf storage and so on. Keep in mind it's not a critical solution - it allows the fixer to free up from the paper a bit better.

I do use it for film though, there's a thread on wash tests here that were surprising. It's cheap, film isn't, my time isn't, and some of my negs are (to me) priceless. So every roll gets tested for adequate fix and I use Residual Hypo Test. Just adds a few seconds, and it's good peace of mind.

For prints, washing without RHT is just guessing. You can either use far too much water and time, not wash enough, or wash properly for the correct time. The only way to know if you washed correctly is with RHT. I don't think washing for an hour is washing "correctly", even if it gets the paper clear of hypo. It's wasteful and it's "guessing" in a situation where we treat all the other steps with some amount of precision.

Jarin Blaschke said:

Thanks! I don't have Sodium Bisulfite or EDTA. But for a single session, a working solution of 20g Sodium Sulfite in a liter of distilled water should work well for around 30 prints? Wash 45 minutes afterward?

-Jarin

Click to expand...

You don't need it. Add one tablespoon to a quart of distilled or reverse osmosis water and use just like HCA. If that damages film, all of min for the last 30+ years must be unusable.

Anon Ymous said:

Make a 2% solution and use it for one session only. The capacity is the same, but the keeping properties aren't. It may become cloudy if mixed with tap water.

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exactly right

Can't you also use baking soda? Or sodium carbonate? Or even table salt? I read somewhere that you could. - David Lyga

Why bother using it at all? You can get the same results with proper washing. And, you avoid an extra pollutant to your effluent.

PE

Well, for prints, if HCA plus 30-60 minutes of washing is usually advised, how much washing is needed without HCA/Permawash to be considered archival? I don't have a print washer - I put 8x10 prints in a 16x20 tray in the bathtub. I drilled a line of holes at one end of the tray and put the tray at a slight angle. The bath faucet plainly pours into one end and water exits through the holes at the other. I pour out the tray a few times during the process as well.

I don't use HCA for film - I just wash for 20 minutes in reels, or 8x10 negs in the tray described above. Hopefully this is fine.

-Jarin

We used 30 - 60 minutes before HCA or Permawash were invented. And, I know of no photofinisher that ever used either of them before the wash.

I have prints from that era ('30s to '60s) that are perfect.

PE

Good to know! Does my draining tray system seem sufficient? I've spent so much, between the 8x10 camera setup, and darkroom supplies, I'd rather not also buy a print washer. At this point, I'd rather keep expenses to film, paper and chemicals! ...ok, maybe save up for another lens...

What fixer system do you recommend? The traditional 2-tray fixer method, or the rapid "get it over with" Ilford method? For time and space reasons, the latter is much more appealing, as long as the prints hold up for, say, 80+ years.

J

In the leaflet provided with MCC papers Agfa advised washing in a sodium carbonate solution. It shortens washing time and gives more archival stability, so they said. Can anybody confirm if this method works?

My fb prints had a white haze/tarnish when the were dry, which I had to wipe off. I didn't really save time in the end, so stopped using the method.

One or two tray, your choice. One tray is quicker but exhausts fixer. Washing should be accompanied by a retained hypo test and a retained silver test to check for quality of wash. I do this on the edge of a print at the corner.

If you are short on water, then use a method that conserves on water.

I use a tray with a hose in it, or a Kodak tray siphon, depending. I use a Jobo reel washer for film.

PE

charlemagne said:

In the leaflet provided with MCC papers Agfa advised washing in a sodium carbonate solution. It shortens washing time and gives more archival stability, so they said. Can anybody confirm if this method works?

My fb prints had a white haze/tarnish when the were dry, which I had to wipe off. I didn't really save time in the end, so stopped using the method.

Click to expand...

the DDTA(photo calgon)is there to prevent that.

Jarin Blaschke said:

Thanks! I don't have Sodium Bisulfite or EDTA. But for a single session, a working solution of 20g Sodium Sulfite in a liter of distilled water should work well for around 30 prints? Wash 45 minutes afterward?

-Jarin

Click to expand...

Calgon is a n alternative to EDTA and very helpful to avoid calcium scum on prints and film.