I DON*T get hasselblad!!

Good morning;

While my education has been in physics and electronics, at times I have worked as a motorcycle mechanic because it was less stressful and much more enjoyable.

All of the motorcycles that still met the manufacturer's specifications but came in for repair where the owner asked us to drive it for a while to get it to perform the objectionable act the owner described, proved to be elusive to me with only one exception and that was a handling problem. I could not get those machines to misbehave for me even over a two week period in one case where I used it for all of my normal driving and I put almost 1000 miles on that bike. In each case, the problem was actually the expectation of the owner not matching the capability of the machine. One case involved a 125 cc bike that constantly fouled its sparking plugs. The owner insisted that it was proper to drive around the city in fifth gear at 1500 to 1800 engine RPM, just like she did with her American automobile with a V-8 engine. When I kept the engine between 3000 and 5000 RPM (it would go to 9500), and adjusted the transmission to meet the speed and road conditions, the engine was blissfully happy. Some people have a sensitivity to the needs of the equipment. When those needs are met, the equipment works wonderfully.

Why do I offer this long story? It is a direct analogy to the "problem" with the Hasselblads. When the operator is trained and familiar with the equipment, it will work. As others have mentioned, students are there to be trained. Even a Kiev 88 will work nicely if it is adjusted, cared for, and used with consideration to its quirks. Yes, I have one of those too.

Ralph Javins said:

Good morning;
.

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good morning ( :confused: ) it's very late evening here....

I can see two options for you:

1. Provide cameras
Train them in use of camera
Impose a user fee scheme of some type
Whatever camera you use expect them to be broken so the minumum to be messed with is best: 1 body, 1 lens, no back is simplest
Mamiya C3x cameras are well built and will do the job
Why not older TLrs like flexarets? cupog on ebay sells ones with CLA reasonably

2. make them buy / make their own MF camera
Plastic? From your replies it seems not
Pinhole?
TLR or similar?

What to do with your Hasselblbads? If sale and rebuying is not an option can you get them CLAd and reserve them for a group with higher skills/care factor eg smaller group of advanced students doing specific projects?

gandolfi said:

nicole: as I have 4 lenses I have to buy 4 houses + a "new" 80mm, as the one here is now stuck to the broken camera...

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Stuck, broken??? On a Hasselblaad, a lens is never, never, stucked for ever! Unless the whole thing is truly destroyed...
If you know the little trick, it is easy to 'unstuck' that lens. No, this time it might not just be done by turning that famous chrome coloured screw inside the body, there is a little bit more to do, but it is rather simple, do believe me. No special tools or spare parts are needed, just a little pincers and the right screwdriver.
I have done it a many times, even with a close up ring in between. The 'trick' was told to me by an factory trained repairmen, at the time Hasseblad Belgium still existed (ages ago).
But, my English is not good enough to explain it by written. And taking pictures in the inside of a 500C/M with the screwdriver and index finger in it, from behind, is not evident, sorry.
If I could, I would like to help you.

Philippe

leicam5 said:

Stuck, broken??? On a Hasselblaad, a lens is never, never, stucked for ever! Unless the whole thing is truly destroyed...
If you know the little trick, it is easy to 'unstuck' that lens. No, this time it might not just be done by turning that famous chrome coloured screw inside the body, there is a little bit more to do, but it is rather simple, do believe me. No special tools or spare parts are needed, just a little pincers and the right screwdriver.
I have done it a many times, even with a close up ring in between. The 'trick' was told to me by an factory trained repairmen, at the time Hasseblad Belgium still existed (ages ago).
But, my English is not good enough to explain it by written. And taking pictures in the inside of a 500C/M with the screwdriver and index finger in it, from behind, is not evident, sorry.
If I could, I would like to help you.

Philippe

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well - if it is a sectet :rolleyes:, then I am lost for options.
to me the lens is hopelessly stuck to the camera, so freeing it will cost me more than a new old lens...

I learned my lesson the hard way.

leicam5 said:

But, my English is not good enough to explain it by written. And taking pictures in the inside of a 500C/M with the screwdriver and index finger in it, from behind, is not evident, sorry.
If I could, I would like to help you.

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Then write it in Dutch, and i'll translate.

leicam5 said:

But, my English is not good enough to explain it by written. And taking pictures in the inside of a 500C/M with the screwdriver and index finger in it, from behind, is not evident, sorry.
If I could, I would like to help you.

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Q.G. said:

Then write it in Dutch, and i'll translate.

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Please, interested readers want to know!!

Steve

(there was a url link here which no longer exists),

All seriousness aside, please send me your damaged Hasselblads and I will pay to get them fixed. No charge to you!

Steve
ps: I will not return them, that I can promise.

Q.G. said:

Then write it in Dutch, and i'll translate.

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Hier komt ie dan, zonder belerend te willen zijn (ook al lijkt het erop, maar ja...). Er zij twee manieren om een geblokkeerde lens van een 500C/M te halen :

1. Via het beruchte chroom kleurige schroefje A (HAS 2).
Met een beetje gevoel en heen en weer wrikken van de lens, vind je wel een punt waarop je de lens zo ver kunt draaien dat deze eraf kan, met het indrukken van de blokkeerpal (vooraan op de body). Niet opspannen vooraleer de lens er af is!

2. Deze werkwijze is wat meer complex.
Wat je nodig hebt zie je op HAS 1, plus veel geduld, een rustige omgeving en goed licht.
Via de zelfde weg als boven, dus na het openen van de hulpsluiter achteraan, zie dan dat het chroom schroefje A (HAS 2) eigenlijk omgeven is met een rechthoekig afdek kapje C (HAS 2) dat ongeveer even breed is als de binnen ruimte. Dit dient om het aandrijfmechanisme D (HAS 2) dat dient om de body en de kardan aandrijving in de lens te verbinden (zit tussen de wanden aan de kant van de slinger), een delicaat stukje mechaniek.
Schroef schroefje B (HAS 2) volledig uit (let op, is zeer kort!) en verwijder het kapje C (HAS 2).
Wat je dan hebt gedemonteerd zie je op foto HAS 3.
Op foto HAS 4 zie wat zich dan openbaart. Kijk nu ook naar het vooraanzicht, foto HAS 5, en let op E en het pijltje (rechts).
Op foto HAS 6 zie je links van schroef A, twee schroefjes : E en F.
Het uiteinde van E zie je op HAS 5.
Nu schroef je E langzaam uit, dat heef tot gevolg dat het mechanisme G, (HAS 5) los komt en naar 'achter' kan bewegen, die beweging zie je op HAS 7. Nu schroef je F langzaam naar RECHTS zodat G als het ware naar achter 'geduwd' wordt. Dit schroefje dient dus om G, dat ook vast gehouden wordt door de aandrijfas D (zie HAS 4) (en het koppelmechanisme tussen de body en de lens aandrijft) in beweging te brengen, maar NIET volledig los te maken! Nu komt het erop aan om E net genoeg LOS te draaien en F net genoeg naar RECHTS te draaien, doe dit stapsgewijze. Nu is een kwestie van voelen tot de lens los komt.
Op HAS 7 zie je wat er gebeurd met G als je F naar rechts draait (zie het pijltje rechts en vergelijk dat eens met HAS 5). Let ook op E, dit is het gaatje die ontstaat als je schroef E los draalt. Let op, E NIET volledig uitdraaien want deze houd G op zijn juiste plaats.
Ook zie je op HAS 7 dat de pin naast E en het ook koppelmechanisme, zich bijna volledig teruggetrokken heeft. Zodoende zit er niets meer in de weg om de lens eraf te halen.
Natuurlijk kan je het zicht zoals op HAS 5 en HAS 7 nooit zien zolang de lens erop zit, maar dit is wel het doel dat je moet bereiken.
Nadat de lens los is voer je de handelingen omgekeerd uit. Dus F naar LINKS zodat G weer op zijn plaats komt. Schroefje E weer netjes dicht draaien en goed aanspannen alsook F (want anders komt F los en verlies je die in het mechanisme). Eigenlijk is F alleen maar een duwschroef om een hefboombewegen te bewerkstelligen.
Als E en F goed vast zitten dan kan je C terug plaatsen en met schroefje B goed vast zetten.
Dan pas kan je de body weer opspannen, niet eerder.
Vergeet de lens niet op te spannen voor je deze weer op de body zet!
Deze handelingen voer je uit op eigen risico, indien het niet lukt ga dan naar een ervaren hersteller.
FORCEER NOOIT, GEBRUIKT GEEN OVERMATIGE KRACHT EN ZEKER GEEN WATERPOMPTANG (ja ja, al gmeegemaakt!) OM EEN EN ANDER IN BEWEGING TE BRENGEN (een lens is uiteindelijk geen gaspijp)!

Veel geluk ermee,

Philippe

P.S. Ik hoop dat de foto's in de juiste volgorde zijn meegekomen...

Thanks.

I'll translate later (have to run now), but basically, the procedure is the one described Dead Link Removed.

thanks for both descriptions.
I think I'll give it a go...

then we'll see if I still have a hasselblad or just a rattleblad....

YES!!!!!



IT WORKED!!

I could be a hasselblad repair man....

however it wasn't totally according to the link.
I did what was described, but nothing happened.

mind you, the mirror was up, and stayed there.

I then gently pushed the mirror back in place, and hold it there while I screwed the "basic" screw. The mirror was then locked in place.

nothing happened with the lens, but looking down from above, I could see a tiny metal "pin" that was preventing the lens to unscrew.
with a small, thin screwdriver, I managed to gently push it in, and then the lens came off freely.

I don't know, whether I hereby did something wrong, but the lens and camera now seems to be working again....

do I give it back to the students ?

not likely!:rolleyes:

THANKS for all the help in here. bashing an'all.....

gandolfi said:

IT WORKED!!

I could be a hasselblad repair man....

however it wasn't totally according to the link.
I did what was described, but nothing happened.

mind you, the mirror was up, and stayed there.

I then gently pushed the mirror back in place, and hold it there while I screwed the "basic" screw. The mirror was then locked in place.

nothing happened with the lens, but looking down from above, I could see a tiny metal "pin" that was preventing the lens to unscrew.
with a small, thin screwdriver, I managed to gently push it in, and then the lens came off freely.

I don't know, whether I hereby did something wrong, but the lens and camera now seems to be working again....

do I give it back to the students ?

not likely!:rolleyes:

THANKS for all the help in here. bashing an'all.....

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Hasselblad is sometimes like an old Landrover, you can always find a way ore a trick to have it run again!

Good luck withe that camera,

Philippe

Q.G. said:

Thanks.

I'll translate later (have to run now), but basically, the procedure is the one described Dead Link Removed.

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I like that!

Again APUG comes through!

Steve

gandolfi said:

IT WORKED!!

I could be a hasselblad repair man....

...

do I give it back to the students ?

not likely!:rolleyes:

THANKS for all the help in here. bashing an'all.....

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My offer still stands! Just send your rejected Hasselblads to me. I promise that they will be placed in a good home and get lots of use.

Steve

Sirius Glass said:

My offer still stands! Just send your rejected Hasselblads to me. I promise that they will be placed in a good home and get lots of use.

Steve

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As promised:

There are two ways to get a stuck lens off a 500 C/M

1. Through the infamous chrome coloured little screw A (HAS 2).
Feeling around a bit and jiggling the lens, you will find a point at which the lens can be rotated far enough to remove it, while depressing the lens catch (on the body’s front). Do not wind until the lens is off!

[Translator’s note: The step you should always (!) try first, before trying to jiggle and wrench the lens off, is trying to turn the screw itself. That’s what it is there for!
You will often find that turning it even a bit will ‘release’ the mechanism, releasing also the combined force of all the springs involved to counter-rotate your screwdriver. So be prepared to let that happen. Do not put up a fight!
If this doesn't release the mechanism immediately, turning the screw will open the lens shutter, and – more importantly, set both camera key and lens axle in a position that will allow rotating and removing the lens in the normal fashion. At the end of the turn, the things will also lock, with a click.

Only when that doesn’t work you could try using the poke-and-jiggle method suggested]

2. This method is a bit more complex.
You can see what you need for this in HAS 1. Plus a lot of patience, a place where you can work undisturbed, and good light.
Along the same path as above, i.e. after opening the auxiliary shutter in the camera’s rear, you will be able to see that the ‘chrome’ screw A is surrounded by a rectangular cover C (HAS 2), which is about as wide as the camera’s interior. [Translator’s note: the following text is not clear. But the cover is a cover, nothing else . The text continues:] This serves to [Translator’s note: ??? It doesn’t say what] the drive mechanism D (HAS 2) which serves to connect the body to the drive shaft in the lens (located between the walls on the wind crank side). A delicate bit of machinery.
Unscrew screw B (HAS 2) completely (attention: is very short!), and remove cover C (HAS 2).
Photo HAS 3 shows what you will then have disassembled.
Photo 4 shows what then is revealed. Now also have a look at the front view in photo HAS 5, and note E and the arrow (to the right).
In photo HAS 6 you will see to the left of screw A two little screws, E and F.
The end of E is shown in HAS 5.
Now slowly unscrew E. This will loosen mechanism G (HAS 5) so that it can move backwards. You can see how it moves in HAS 7. Now screw F CLOCKWISE, pushing G backwards. This screw, F, serves to move G – also held by drive shaft D (see HAS 4) - but should NOT be loosened completely! The thing to do is to LOOSEN E just enough and turn F just enough CLOCKWISE. Do this little bit by little bit, until you feel that the lens is free.
HAS 7 shows what happens to G when F is turned clockwise (see arrow to the right and compare this to HAS 5). Also note E, the little hole that appears when screw E is unscrewed. Attention: do NOT loosen E completely, because it is what is keeping G in the correct position.
HAS 7 also shows that the pin next to E en the coupling mechanism has withdrawn almost completely, so that nothing is in the way of the lens when it is being removed.

What both HAS 5 and HAS 7 show is of course hidden from view for as long as the lens is still on the camera. But it is the thing we want to achieve.
After the lens is removed from the camera, you reverse the procedure. So turn F COUNTERCLOCKWISE to put G in its proper place. Refasten screw E until it is tight. Do the same for screw F (else it will come loose and will be lost inside the mechanism). F really only is a push-screw, levering the mechanism.
When E and F are tight, C can be reinserted and fastened properly with screw B.
Only now is it safe to wind the camera. Do not do this any sooner.
Do not forget to cock the shutter in the lens before trying to remount it on the camera!
You can try this procedure at your own risk. If not successful, take the camera to an experienced repairperson.
NEVER FORCE ANYTHING, DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE FORCE AND CERTAINLY DO NOT USE A MONKEY WRENCH (yes, yes, have seen that!) TO GET THINGS MOVING (a lens is not a gas pipe)!

Best of luck.

Hasselblad 500C is a beautiful and reliabel but delicate camera, not for amateurs! I used mine for more than 10 years and never had a problem with them. Finally sold them more or less like new after making an average of 25,000 pictures a year on each camera!

The Hasselblads need respect..otherwise they will tease you
maybe (if you get the problem fixed) you should give the students a little course in how to manually wind up the lens shutter and change the lenses correctly
(btw what school is that? im from Denmark and it sounds interresting

No matter what camera, from Hasselblad, Sinar, Calumet Green monster to ultra delicate 27000 dollar leaf back cameras, if made available to students they will break. It is undeniable and with out fail. If it breaks and it is there fault then they should pay, that is why if you are going to have an equipment cage then qualified techs are not a luxury but a necessity. Every camera should be checked completely before and after each student uses it.
Just my 2 cents, although well informed 2 cents
PBrooks

Whent I bought my other MF system, I did a bit of research on second-hand prices. A Bronica SQA handles very similarly to a Hasselblad 500C but is less quircky. With two backs, WLF, prism and 50, 80 and 150 mm lenses it comes at less of a fifth of the price than the equivalent used Hasselblad 500CM. I haven't seen that this difference was reflected in the end results.

students should be given old press cameras. Give them a Mamiya Press. I was doing night time photography in downtown Portland late one night and was aproached by a man obviously on drugs. Obvious because he walked up to me and annonced "i'm not from this planet you know!" To make a long story short, I ended the encounter by smashing him in the side of the face with the Mamiya. Mamiya score one, bums score 0.

The problem with any time you give nice equipment to someone that DIDN'T have to pay for it, they will find a way to break it!

gandolfi said:

so - in the end of the day, if it is not the camera that's to blame (I still do..), but me, and the students, what camera(s) in medium format would you recommend?

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I vote for Mamiya RB. You don't have to think if you cocked shooter before aperture or speed change or not. Even when you change lenses, you have to cock shutter before you remove lens, but if you forget to do that, camera will not jam, it only won't let you ro remove lens. And even students can remember: if you try to change lens, and it won't go off camera, don't use force, cock the shutter. That is.

I still need to find a way to jam my RB.

Then there is all sorts of "protection". For example, If shutter don't fire either shutter isn't cocked, or film wasn't wound to next frame, or darkslide isn't removed, or camera was broken. But it won't jam. If darkslide don't go off magazine, magazine isn't properly mounterd on camera. Etc...

Foolproof camera

haris said:

I vote for Mamiya RB. You don't have to think if you cocked shooter before aperture or speed change or not. Even when you change lenses, you have to cock shutter before you remove lens, but if you forget to do that, camera will not jam, it only won't let you ro remove lens. And even students can remember: if you try to change lens, and it won't go off camera, don't use force, cock the shutter. That is.

I still need to find a way to jam my RB.

Then there is all sorts of "protection". For example, If shutter don't fire either shutter isn't cocked, or film wasn't wound to next frame, or darkslide isn't removed, or camera was broken. But it won't jam. If darkslide don't go off magazine, magazine isn't properly mounterd on camera. Etc...

Foolproof camera

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true - I have been thinking about it..

one more advantage of the RB.. it is so heavy, that the students will leave it in the studio, hopefully...

gandolfi said:

one more advantage of the RB.. it is so heavy, that the students will leave it in the studio, hopefully...

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Beautifull