I DON*T get hasselblad!!

gandolfi · Sep 20, 2008

Are some models of hasselblad more fragile than others?

As some of you know, I teach photography at a school here in Denmark.
We have now had two hasselblad's - 500C - for the students to use....

as it turned up, this was not a good idea....

(in theory yes, as we have great lenses (40 -50 -80 -150mm for it)

the cameras was in good state, but as soon as it was used by the students they broke down.

the shutter is stuck - the lens doesn't come off - it will not wind up - the mirror is up, and stays there...

there is another recent thread about this here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

just to let you know, that all the suggestions made in the thread has been done, without any luck.:confused:

so now I hate hasselblad! it's a weak camera!
I thought it was a quality camera, which then was a freat idea for the school to have, but I was wrong..

the problem is, that it proberly is more expensive to gave it fixed, than to find another house with an 80mm on it..

(I've always been a rolleiman - now more than ever!)

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2008

I had a panic call once from a student who'd jammed the shutter on a Hasselblad he had on loan from his University. I had to pass him on to someone else as I've never used them, but yes apparently it's a very common problem when students aren't warned & familiar with the shutter/back jamming issues.

Ian

Kevin Caulfield · Sep 20, 2008

The students are very fortunate to be able to use Hasselblads. Hasselblads ARE very strong and resistant to use, but they still need to be treated with respect.

Uncle Goose · Sep 20, 2008

A camera will work great if it's handled correctly.

Q.G. · Sep 20, 2008

No, Gandolfi, no matter how frustrating this experience must be (and i sincerely sympathize), you really were not wrong believing that Hasselblads are quality cameras.

You probably were, though, buying cameras that perhaps haven't been serviced in over 50 years.
Or trusting it to students, who, though they will still have a lot to learn, have an innate ability to break something that is not theirs.

So a good idea would be to have these cameras seen to (which you should have done before buying, at the latest before using them first - these things are at the very least 38 years old! 38 to possibly 51 years of hard use. Who knows how often or how well they were serviced during that period!), or replace them by cameras - preferably later ones - that you know have been used and serviced well.

And also to teach your students also how not to treat their tools.

gandolfi · Sep 20, 2008

Q.G. said:
Or trusting it to students, who, though they will still have a lot to learn, have an innate ability to break something that is not theirs.

And also to teach your students also how not to treat their tools.

the first quote is true.
I've always tried to be sure that the school equipment is made of really hard materials (amazing how often easels get bent or brakes down anyway...)

I also try to teach my students how not to brake their tools, but it seems I am not good at it..

I think the end result of this will be no medium format cameras with interchangeing lenses..
"Flexaret" maybe.... (they come cheap..):rolleyes:

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 20, 2008

Yes- a 500 C is a very old camera. There is also a high probability that at some point in its life, it was used as a professional tool ( my old 500C was used by at least one busy wedding photographer before I bought it ). That tends to make them wear out and need major service.

From your description, it does sound like your camera is a victim of student mishandling. Students can and do wreck ANY camera you put in their hands. Rolleis probably live a little longer between servicings since you can't change lenses or backs on them. To get the Hassys to live longer, you need to set a policy that requires the students to be trained on how to add/remove backs and lenses from the Hassy before they take it out.

Marco B · Sep 20, 2008

TheFlyingCamera said:
To get the Hassys to live longer, you need to set a policy that requires the students to be trained on how to add/remove backs and lenses from the Hassy before they take it out.

In addition to this: wouldn't a 50 euro or so deposit be in order as well? This works for almost everybody: if you know that it will cost you money if you break something, you tend to be just that little bit more careful needed to keep things in one piece. And if you need to pay in advance, instead of just being told that "in the remote possibility of damaging something", itwill cost you money, the warning works better. It won't avoid all disasters, but might just help a bit...

gandolfi · Sep 20, 2008

Marco B said:
In addition to this: wouldn't a 50 euro or so deposit be in order as well? This works for almost everybody: if you know that it will cost you money if you break something, you tend to be just that little bit more careful needed to keep things in one piece. And if you need to pay in advance, instead of just being told that "in the remote possibility of damaging something", itwill cost you money, the warning works better. It won't avoid all disasters, but might just help a bit...

true - and I'll proberly do that, if we get the hassy fixed...

otherwise I have some great lenses and 15 filters and much for no use....

Neil Souch · Sep 20, 2008

Hi,

More like a student problem I should think - after all they don't have to pay for them. The Hasselblad 500 series is a bit quirky and can catch you out if you are not use to them but they are built very well and will last if treated correctly. Maybe Bronicas would be a better MF choice with students as they are much easier to load up and use etc. Just a thought!

Cheers,
Neil.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 20, 2008

When I got my 500C a little over a year ago, all sorts of things went wrong. It was user error, like forgetting to take the darkslide out, etc. After using it a while, it's the most reliable camera I've ever owned (for what it's worth, I've only had it a year). But since I learned how to use it, I have never had a problem with it.

I think what might be misfortunate about having students using them is that you're likely to have someone new to Hasselblad cameras every time it's used - and that is a potential problem. I like Scott's suggestion to have the students remove / replace lenses, load film backs, remove/replace film backs, etc. Go through the motions with them before they can check it out for use. And the deposit idea is also good. You can find Hasselblad cameras cheap today, but they are still spendy to fix.

I can hook you up with a guy in Sweden that services them, and he is really really good. PM me if you need the information.

Thanks, and good luck.

- Thomas

jgcull · Sep 20, 2008

When I bought my Hasselblad, the first thing they showed me was how to lock it up (or how *not* to). I don't always remember where my car keys are, but I've not forgotten the Hassy. I've never had a problem with that because, like QC said, I was taught how to not jam it.

He did, however, also show me how to use a screwdriver to turn that tiny screw to fix it. I'm assuming we're talking of the same problem?

Bill Mitchell · Sep 20, 2008

Some wag (David Vestal?) once published an article called "32 ways to jam a Hasselblad."

markbarendt · Sep 20, 2008

I haven't owned a Hasselblad but I've worked with a lot of different things in my life and the GOOD stuff seems to fall into two general categories.

1-Tempermental or 2-idiot proof.

Typically the tempermental stuff takes some finesse and skill and generally works better/does more when the user has that finesse and skill. These types of machines tend to work perfectly and be a true joy to use but only if all the rules are followed.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 20, 2008

If students have problems with a Hasselbad, it is not only their fault, the teacher is as responsible as they are, sorry I have to say this (after 28 years of intensive Hasselblad use)...

Philippe

BrianShaw · Sep 20, 2008

gandolfi said:
...so now I hate hasselblad! it's a weak camera!
I thought it was a quality camera, which then was a freat idea for the school to have, but I was wrong...

Like several others, let me suggest that perhaps you are over-reacting. Hassy is a quirky system, not weak. One must know how they operate of frustration (and occasionally jams) happen. No offense intended, but perhaps you need to spend a bit more time with the Hassy so you can better educate your students in how to use them.

As a total aside... this kind of post really makes me scratch my head. Why is it that folks buy old cameras that they are not willing to refurbish and then expect them to operate flawlessly... like a brand new camera?

André E.C. · Sep 20, 2008

gandolfi said:
so now I hate hasselblad! it's a weak camera!
I thought it was a quality camera, which then was a freat idea for the school to have, but I was wrong..

the problem is, that it proberly is more expensive to gave it fixed, than to find another house with an 80mm on it..

(I've always been a rolleiman - now more than ever!)

Nothing new, you're a natural Hasselblad hater, why didn't you got some of those limited fixed focal lenght cameras named Rollei?:confused:

Hasselblads are for individuals who respect the device modus-operandi, Rolleiflexes are as simple as possible, therefore, a best option for children or adults with some problems to learn and follow an operating formula.

Hasselblad isn't a quality camera in the wrong hands, but just a tip, the problem is lack of discipline from the operator, not the machine.

André

BrianShaw · Sep 20, 2008

André E.C. said:
Hasselblads are for individuals who respect the device modus-operandi, Rolleiflexes are as simple as possible, therefore, a best option for children or adults with some problems to learn and follow an operating formula.

Ouch... I felt the sting! As a user of both systems, though, I can't help but agree.

André E.C. · Sep 20, 2008

Brian and Gandolfi also, yes a little sting indeed, but nothing subtancial or with bad intentions, we are all adults here.

Cheers

André

Andrew Moxom · Sep 20, 2008

Hasselblad relialibility is there by their design, but really only as good as the operator. It's a dumb machine which needs a little understanding to use, just as any other camera/tool. They are well designed and very functional. There is a process that needs to be learned to use these machines the correct way. Just like with other devices or processes, their features and idiosynchrosies need to be known before allowing anyone with out prior knowledge of them to use them or problems will occur from people being hamfisted by nature. After you use them a while, you get used to the noises and things that they do that become their 'personality' in how the whole system works and fits together. It could be a spendy proposition allowing untrained folks loose with a precision tool without the knowledge of their limits. I hope you find a way to get these folks on board with this superb system. After it's learned it's like riding a bike.

Nicole · Sep 20, 2008

In the early days I once jammed my blad really badly by removing the lens after cocking the shutter and not winding on. Clearly an operator error. It was fixed by an expert in an afternoon and since then I never made that mistake again. Don't give up on that gem yet. Just train the operators.

Andy38 · Sep 20, 2008

One lens , one body...
If you have three lenses , then buy three bodies to avoid the students to change the lens .
You'll spend less money while doing that .

I was a teacher , and I know that nobody is perfect...

Uncle Goose · Sep 20, 2008

gandolfi said:
I think the end result of this will be no medium format cameras with interchangeing lenses..
"Flexaret" maybe.... (they come cheap..):rolleyes:

You blasphemer!! Your fleshly flap of meat you call a tongue should be cut out and fed to hungry black cats!!

Just kidding!

Flexarets are great camera's, I've using them for a few years now and they do a great job. Of course you have to buy one who got a CLA by a pro and not from some guy who cleaned out his dad or grandpa's closet and found a Flexaret sitting there for over 3 decades.

I don't think any camera qualifies as student material because all cameras are precision tools and students don't handle then with enough care because it's not their gear. If I look at the Mamiya RB gear we have here in school I often wonder why those even still work, some of the lenses are so badly scratched that I'm surprised it doesn't show.

gandolfi · Sep 20, 2008

Andy38 said:
One lens , one body...
If you have three lenses , then buy three bodies to avoid the students to change the lens .
You'll spend less money while doing that .

I was a teacher , and I know that nobody is perfect...

good suggestion (actually we have 4 lenses...), but we don't have the money for it..

for all the rest of the comments:

I know that spending a certain amount of time with a camera helps a lot..

As I said, I'm a rolleiman, but I'd never let my students use my rolleiflex, for the same reasons.

I have been naive, but I thought that the hasselblad wass more or less idiot proof, but it isn't.

...

I'm afraid that the camera now will be for somebody else.

and the students can then buy their own hasselblad.

mind you, it is not children that I have as students - they are all adults; maybe that's the reason, I don't seem to be able to educate them in the do's and especially the don'ts (?)

I don't feel the sting somebody mentioned.
I know how to handle these cameras...

I think..

Uncle Goose · Sep 20, 2008

It doesn't matter if they are kids or adults. I used to work as cabdriver in a big taxi company with all adults but you should have seen some of the cars. They were company cars and that showed, some people just don't have any respect for others stuff.

I DON*T get hasselblad!!

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