I do not like the extolled XTOL

MattKing · Nov 27, 2016

Fred Aspen said:
Maybe 'what' with my 7 liter bucket? Any help would be appreciated.

Some sort of impurity or contaminant?

Arvee · Nov 27, 2016

MattKing said:
Some sort of impurity or contaminant?

Polyethylene bucket purchased new and dedicated to this purpose. Scrubbed clean and dried prior to a mixing cycle. I once used a large glass mixing bowl and won't do that again! Caught hell from SWMBO!

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 27, 2016

Fred Aspen said:
Polyethylene bucket purchased new and dedicated to this purpose. Scrubbed clean and dried prior to a mixing cycle. I once used a large glass mixing bowl and won't do that again! Caught hell from SWMBO!

Always blame the 7 liter bucket.

Alan Johnson · Nov 28, 2016

I keep air out of my Xtol and never have any problems (I deduce its because I mix it in a 5 liter bucket to start ).
Solvent developers with sulfite oxidize to give the faint color failure (Xtol) or the activity increase (D76) .
http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/009cSb

David Lyga · Nov 28, 2016

Since using XTOL in its 'proper' dilutions I have had no problems. But there is something scary about developers that, when they go bad, don't LOOK bad. Scary. - David Lyga

Anon Ymous · Nov 28, 2016

David Lyga said:
Since using XTOL in its 'proper' dilutions I have had no problems. But there is something scary about developers that, when they go bad, don't LOOK bad. Scary. - David Lyga

David, if you're a 135 shooter, then you can always do a clip test with the film leader before processing any film. I'd just process a bit of film (dev, stop, fix) as i'd normally do, but in a graduate, then check (eyeball) the density of this film clip against a light source. You could also compare it with a known "correct" film clip. It's a shame not to use such a great developer because extreme, unofficial dilutions can be problematic.

David Lyga · Nov 28, 2016

I INVENTED the 'clip test'. I would NEVER leave home without it.

Still, it takes getting used to developers that LOOK good, when BEING bad!!! - David Lyga

pentaxuser · Nov 28, 2016

David Lyga said:
I INVENTED the 'clip test'. I would NEVER leave home without it.

Still, it takes getting used to developers that LOOK good, when BEING bad!!! - David Lyga

My experience and I think I mentioned it here on APUG was that Xtol when it goes bad as in "doesn't develop or only faintly develops" does in fact change. It goes from the colour of water as in clear to a slight straw colour. The user needs to look closely but the change in my case was clearly there. I need to add that the Xtol in question had been in a wine-bag which was nearly empty and I had been using it for about 2 years

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 28, 2016

All this talk about Xtol makes me want to use up my current developer inventory and work with it again. Replenished it was an astonishing developer. Particularly with TMax / Acros / Delta films (except D3200 which wasn't ideal). Stunning with Fp4 too.

Peter Schrager · Nov 28, 2016

Could be all around best developer ever created
Some people would say rodinal..bUT it's working best with 100 asa and under films
I always use it 1+2 with semi agitation on tmy400...gives me full speed which is great for pushing or handheld...never really had any failure problems..glass filled to brim..
I burn lots film so never had it sit for months and months...if I do it's just as easy to pop a new bag...

John Wiegerink · Nov 28, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
All this talk about Xtol makes me want to use up my current developer inventory and work with it again. Replenished it was an astonishing developer. Particularly with TMax / Acros / Delta films (except D3200 which wasn't ideal). Stunning with Fp4 too.

Yes, FP4+ is very, very nice in Xtol-R. I just added more FP4+ 120 to the fridge and the first two cameras it goes in are an old Kodak Monitor 620 and a Zeiss Super Ikonta C. I'll have to remember to post some pics from those two developed in Xtol-R.

baachitraka · Nov 28, 2016

PC-TEA, if uncertain about x-tol's life or death.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 28, 2016

baachitraka said:
PC-TEA, if uncertain about x-tol's life or death.

Can you replenish it? I've heard of it, but never used it.

Athiril · Nov 28, 2016

I kept replenished Xtol and replenisher in open 5l jugs and covered them with print trays when not in use. They were fine. That was before converting a frontier c41 processor to run on replenished xtol which also worked well.

Sirius Glass · Nov 28, 2016

David Lyga said:
With XTOL I found that there really are limits that do not deviate too far from Kodak's directions. I did not like that and THAT is my reason for not extolling XTOL. Perhaps I am a spoiled brat. - David Lyga

In one word? Yes!!!

Most people would never complain about products working exactly as they are supposed to when following the published instructions carefully. If you open your hand and an object falls to the floor do you rant and rail against Issac Newton and his gravitational laws??

baachitraka · Nov 29, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Can you replenish it? I've heard of it, but never used it.

TEA by its nature is very viscous. For mixing the Phenidone and Ascorbic acid may need to heat it.

Best used as one shot and it performs really good on almost on all lighting conditions.

David Lyga · Nov 29, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
In one word? Yes!!!

Thank you 'Sirius' for apprising me of my downfalls and character flaws.

Where would APUG be without your admirable wisdom? - David Lyga

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 29, 2016

baachitraka said:
TEA by its nature is very viscous. For mixing the Phenidone and Ascorbic acid may need to heat it.

Best used as one shot and it performs really good on almost on all lighting conditions.

I'm not sure you understood my question, since you're not answering it. Are you able to use PC-TEA as a replenished developer, with a working solution that is replenished with a certain amount of concentrate with every roll that is processed using the working solution?
That's how Xtol works best, in my opinion; either in a big tank, or with daylight tanks. You use a working solution, let's say 2 liters. With each roll processed (135-36/120/8x10) equivalent area, a suitable amount of the working solution is discarded so that about 90ml stock Xtol can be added (per roll) to make the working solution 2 liters again.
With Xtol you can go like this indefinitely. My working solution was over 5 years old when I stopped using Xtol.

baachitraka · Nov 29, 2016

TEA is used as 1+50. For 300ml of solution I use 6ml of PC-TEA.

I don't really know whether it can be replenished.

baachitraka · Nov 29, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I'm not sure you understood my question, since you're not answering it. Are you able to use PC-TEA as a replenished developer, with a working solution that is replenished with a certain amount of concentrate with every roll that is processed using the working solution?
That's how Xtol works best, in my opinion; either in a big tank, or with daylight tanks. You use a working solution, let's say 2 liters. With each roll processed (135-36/120/8x10) equivalent area, a suitable amount of the working solution is discarded so that about 90ml stock Xtol can be added (per roll) to make the working solution 2 liters again.
With Xtol you can go like this indefinitely. My working solution was over 5 years old when I stopped using Xtol.

I may try to replenish when the developer concentrate is half empty i.e., when it reaches 50ml(100ml is the total volume) but I have no idea whether it has any benefits.

Arvee · Nov 29, 2016

Or, instead of worrying about your developer going south on you, you can switch to/stay with Rodinal.

Yesterday I discovered a hidden, unopened, original 500ml container of Rodinal (best guess - purchased in 2003). Opened it up, decanted into 125ml Boston rounds and souped a test roll. Perfect!

Rodinal is bulletproof!

Anon Ymous · Nov 29, 2016

Rodinal is good, but not exactly the definition of good all around developer. Won't get the best film speed, nor fine grain. For some it might be objectionable, especially 135 users.

removed account4 · Nov 29, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
In one word? Yes!!!

Most people would never complain about products working exactly as they are supposed to when following the published instructions carefully.

as mentioned in this thread, and others ...
i used the product exactly as intended
through conversations with people at kodak
and with others i know who used the developer ( for years )
and it failed for me miserably.

david,
i am glad you got the kinks out of your process

thomas,
have fun!
john

DWThomas · Nov 29, 2016

Every time I see this thread pop up, the alliterative title makes me want a Dr. Seuss poem to go with it. Alas, don't think my wordsmithery is up to it.

Yours, still happily wallowing in HC110 1+63 one-shot,

Vonder · Nov 29, 2016

I don't believe Kodak "nailed" the issue with blame on the 1-L packs. I have never used the 1-L packs and I have had XTOL go dead on me. True, I mix up my 5L jug and it takes me quite a while to use it up, and I have only had issues with "towards the end of the batch" and dilutions.

On a semi-related note I used my now-ancient (several months old) Xtol at full strength this weekend. Acros and Ilford Delta 100. I was surprised at how beautiful the Delta 100 negatives came out. I may have to investigate that film and developer again. I always assumed that most of the t-grain 100 speed films were pretty similar.

I do not like the extolled XTOL

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