I bought a lens and this is what I received :-(

removedacct1 · Mar 4, 2015

Purchased through "that auction site", a Turner-Reich Gundelach 21" 8x10 Lens Series II which I received in the mail today. Either the photos used to display the lens had disguised the fact, or the lens was damaged in shipping, but one of the shutter leaves is broken off completely and is floating inside the lens

I'm not thrilled about sending it back for a refund, since the shutter mechanism works and - miracle of miracles - seems to be reasonably accurate right down to 1/2 second. (the one second drags a bit) It is my intention to use this with an Kodak 8X10 camera I was given for making paper negs, so it won't need the fast shutter speeds anyway. Perhaps I can just remove the broken shutter leaf and use a lens cap to start and end exposures? Is there any chance there's a technician out there somewhere who could effect a repair on the shutter? Suggestions, please?! Thanks,

Paul

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 4, 2015

You could contact Carol at Flutot's Camera Repair.

Excellent quality, reasonable prices, and one of the nicer people you'll ever meet. She has worked on four shutters for me (soon to be six), including a Compur Press I almost tossed because it was frozen solid. Now it works as smooth as glass and is one of the most accurate and repeatable shutters I own.

Carol is the owner, having taken over the business from her father. She has been doing this for a long time. I can't recall anyone ever posting a negative thing to say about her. You could send her the photo(s) and description of the problem and see what she says.

Ken

removedacct1 · Mar 4, 2015

Thanks, Ken - I will!

Sirius Glass · Mar 4, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
You could contact Carol at Flutot's Camera Repair.

Excellent quality, reasonable prices, and one of the nicer people you'll ever meet. She has worked on four shutters for me (soon to be six), including a Compur Press I almost tossed because it was frozen solid. Now it works as smooth as glass and is one of the most accurate and repeatable shutters I own.

Carol is the owner, having taken over the business from her father. She has been doing this for a long time. I can't recall anyone ever posting a negative thing to say about her. You could send her the photo(s) and description of the problem and see what she says.

Ken

I highly recommend Carol Flutot!

NB23 · Mar 4, 2015

Yes, Flutot. Was good.

Dr Croubie · Mar 4, 2015

Once you get it working, that glass is a gem. I've also got the 12/21/28" Series II.
Mine's in a Betax #4 which is missing a spring, so it's T, B, and 1/50s only (although being a press shutter, 1/25 is just two hits of 1/50).
For contact-printing B+W, it's plenty sharp enough, no need for the latest apo-whatsit.
(Although when you're just using one element, it's apparently best to put on a coloured-filter to get rid of colour fringing for B+W, I haven't tried it in colour)

shutterfinger · Mar 4, 2015

Your shutter needs a new shutter blade. The tip of the blade in the lower right, above the ufac of Manufacturing, is broken off; the blade across from 8x10 has a large check mark shaped section broken out. I have made blades out of unprocessed sheet film before. This is a dial set shutter. Dial set shutter's have 4 shutter blades with 2 blades 180° apart attached with screws and the other two blades held in by pressure of the two screw attached blades. Shake it around some and see if the broken off pieces are in the shutter, if so it is due to shipping. If it has paper aperture blades get a new shutter.

Contact me if Flutots cannot, will not, or has an excessive backlog.

Fotoguy20d · Mar 5, 2015

The 12-21-28 is a great lens with the 2-D. the cell in the front should be a 28" FL. The one in the back should be a 21. with both on the shutter ypu have a 12" FL.

Is that an Ilex General shutter? a word of warning that those cells will not thread into a betax or alphax shutter. if you are using paper and shooting at f22-f32, shutter speeds will be long. For now, just use it with the shutter open and use a hat or similar.

dan

removedacct1 · Mar 5, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Your shutter needs a new shutter blade. The tip of the blade in the lower right, above the ufac of Manufacturing, is broken off; the blade across from 8x10 has a large check mark shaped section broken out. I have made blades out of unprocessed sheet film before. This is a dial set shutter. Dial set shutter's have 4 shutter blades with 2 blades 180° apart attached with screws and the other two blades held in by pressure of the two screw attached blades. Shake it around some and see if the broken off pieces are in the shutter, if so it is due to shipping. If it has paper aperture blades get a new shutter.

Contact me if Flutots cannot, will not, or has an excessive backlog.

Thank you kindly. I have emailed Flutot's and will see what they have to say. I'd really like to get this lens into service

shutterfinger · Mar 5, 2015

Take a look at page 4 of http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/korona_2.html

Sheet film is .004 to .007 inch thick. Shutters from the 1940's to current use .002 to .003 inch thick shutter blades. I not certain I can make a new blade for it but the shutter should have .004 thick shutter blades and enough space for .001 to .0015 inch thicker blade.

Jerevan · Mar 5, 2015

I gave one of these TRs away to a friend - it had three large gashes up front and some balsam separation but it still makes beautiful photographs. Hope you get it up and running!

removedacct1 · Mar 5, 2015

I've sent the information to both Flutot's and Zacks Camera Repair and now I wait for a response......

removedacct1 · Mar 5, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Take a look at page 4 of http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/korona_2.html

Sheet film is .004 to .007 inch thick. Shutters from the 1940's to current use .002 to .003 inch thick shutter blades. I not certain I can make a new blade for it but the shutter should have .004 thick shutter blades and enough space for .001 to .0015 inch thicker blade.

I measured the broken shutter blade with a digital micrometer and it is 0.17mm thick. A sheet of Ilford Ortho Plus 4x5 measured 0.20mm. HP5 from a 120 roll measured 0.10mm

Carol responded to my initial request for help and asked what the shutter make is: its an Ilex.

Just providing more info

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 5, 2015

Thanks Paul. I'm interested to follow this issue along. It's a beautiful lens that deserves a working shutter.

Ken

Sirius Glass · Mar 5, 2015

You will be happy with Carol's work.

heespharm · Mar 5, 2015

Carol has 2 of my shutters now... Very excited to get them back

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

baachitraka · Mar 6, 2015

Good Luck.

John Koehrer · Mar 6, 2015

Miscellaneous stuff. In the daybooks E. Weston mentioned buying one of these things.
I guess it was OK for him.......... :~D

Maybe carbon fiber sheet for a blade?

removedacct1 · Mar 6, 2015

Carol has reported that she will be able to effect a repair on the Ilex shutter if she can find replacement parts in her archive of bits and pieces. Lets hope.

Failing that, I am tempted to scan the broken shutter blade and import the outline into a graphics editor to fix the broken outline, then into a CAD editor to make a 3D file. From there, I can theoretically send it to my 3D printer to generate a new shutter blade in ABS (or PLA) plastic. My 3D printer should be able to print a file 0.17mm thick without too much trouble. Still - I will wait to see if Carol can find the parts....

scheimfluger_77 · Mar 6, 2015

paulbarden said:
...

Failing that, I am tempted to scan the broken shutter blade and import the outline into a graphics editor to fix the broken outline, then into a CAD editor to make a 3D file. From there, I can theoretically send it to my 3D printer to generate a new shutter blade in ABS (or PLA) plastic. My 3D printer should be able to print a file 0.17mm thick without too much trouble. Still - I will wait to see if Carol can find the parts....

I wonder if there's a business opportunity in 3D printed shutters, or at least parts.

Dr Croubie · Mar 6, 2015

Is 3d-printed ABS really going to be strong enough for the forces and accelerations involved in shutter blades, especially at that thickness? (at least, anything that comes out of a machine costing under a hundred grand).
Also possible is to get another completely dead shutter, with blades bigger than this one, and cut it down (if you can do so and keep it completely flat with no bent edges).

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 6, 2015

Would the mass of the 3D-generated blade in ABS or PLA match the mass of the original blade? In other words, would it weigh the same?

I ask because I believe it takes a LF leaf shutter about 1 millisecond to achieve full open, and another millisecond to close.

Since the pair of acceleration/deceleration times for the blades from a standing start upon each shutter release cycle would be dependent on their mass (overcoming inertia), I would think any replacement blade would need to be a match, so as not to be out of sync with the other blades as they all started and stopped twice each cycle?

Just thinking out loud...

:confused:

Ken

removedacct1 · Mar 6, 2015

@Ken: these are valuable questions to ask, indeed. I doubt the mass would be a match for the existing blades, so if I did opt to go this route, it would be best to replace ALL the blades with ABS plastic ones. It may be worth the experiment, since this is no doubt uncharted territory!

Sirius Glass · Mar 6, 2015

Carol, in the past, has managed to pull off small miracles for me in restricted time periods, on occasion.

Fotoguy20d · Mar 6, 2015

My experience with ABS plastic (from a Stratasys printer) parts is they aren't opaque.

Dan

I bought a lens and this is what I received :-(

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