I am still trying to recover from a simple request ...

I merely inquired as to what the price was for a small quantity of sodium tetraphosphate (discontinued Kodak Anti-Cal). I expected maybe $5 or so ... I am still in shock. And it would be coming from Long Island, only 100 miles away!!! Please, is there a LOGICAL explanation for this price? A pound of this stuff would be well into the tens of thousands!!!!

Dear David,
Thanks for your inquiry.
Please find below the price and availability for requested item.
Quote Number
*************
Name
Sodium tetraphosphate (P2O5, 60.3-61.5%)
CAS Number
7727-67-5
Quantity & Price
10 g 498 USD
20 g 798 USD

Shipping fee
90 USD
Handling fee
30 USD
Lead time
In stock, 1-2 weeks for delivery

Please indicate the quote number when you place an order. The quote is valid within 30 days.


If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated regarding this quotation.
A member of our support team will be following up with you shortly to provide further 1 on 1 support.

We hope that this quote meets with your approval and look forward to receiving an order from you.
When you are ready to place an order, you may make the payment by credit card or wire transfer. Or you can send us a PO (purchase order) by email or fax, including your shipping/billing addresses and your contact information. We will process your order ASAP.

www.alfa-chemistry.com

2200 Smithtown Avenue, Room 1
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779-7329, USA
Tel: info@alfa-chemistry.com

Hmmm, some sort of reagent grade chemical for whatever specialised purpose? Anyway, one of the discontinued Antical products by Kodak was Sodium Hexametaphosphate, which is very cheap and fairly easy to source.

David:
If you just "g00gle-it" you can find it for 17$ for 500g...

Have fun !
John

Good, I hear that the 'hexameta' is just as good, but I have not tried it, thus wanted the original 'tetra'. But, still, the price!!! Tens of thousands for one pound??? - David Lyga

SODIUM TETRAPOLYPHOSPHATE: google it, loads of cheap sources

That sounds like “go away” pricing. They may not want to deal with such a small quantity from an occasional customer.

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

David Lyga said:

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

Click to expand...

The common denominator is people who don't shop around. If a company suspects you won't go to a competitor, they'll often try to gouge you. In the case of the hospital, that's morally abhorrent. You're talking life or death situations where shopping around isn't always possible due to time constraints. In the case of the chemical manufacturer, it's standard business in today's world. They may have a legitimate reason to charge so much, like they have to order the chemical in bulk and then sit on it and wait for someone else to maybe order the rest. Or maybe they just don't want to deal in small volume because their system is designed to deal in large quantities and dealing in small quantities would be very difficult, costly, and time consuming for them.

I always check prices online these days. Often times for chemicals, I can find good deals on Amazon, eBay, or Etsy, where an individual or small company who needed that product bought it in bulk and is now selling the rest to recover their costs. Since they're not in the chemical sales business, their motivation isn't profit, but rather to maintain their own steady supply while breaking even on the rest. So they buy the 55 gallon drum for $10k and sell 5,000 one ounce bottles for $2 a piece and keep the remaining 15 gallons for themselves.

It may also be a non-stock item which they need to make a special run, phosphate manufacture in the current age is also very much more EPA hindered than in the golden years, and you may be paying for a entire batch even though you only need a few grams. Don't be too quick to assume price-gouging or some Evil Overlord scenario.

David Lyga said:

I merely inquired as to what the price was for a small quantity of sodium tetraphosphate (discontinued Kodak Anti-Cal). I expected maybe $5 or so ... I am still in shock. And it would be coming from Long Island, only 100 miles away!!! Please, is there a LOGICAL explanation for this price? A pound of this stuff would be well into the tens of thousands!!!!

Dear David,
Thanks for your inquiry.
Please find below the price and availability for requested item.
Quote Number
*************
Name
Sodium tetraphosphate (P2O5, 60.3-61.5%)
CAS Number
7727-67-5
Quantity & Price
10 g 498 USD
20 g 798 USD

Shipping fee
90 USD
Handling fee
30 USD
Lead time
In stock, 1-2 weeks for delivery

Please indicate the quote number when you place an order. The quote is valid within 30 days.


If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated regarding this quotation.
A member of our support team will be following up with you shortly to provide further 1 on 1 support.

We hope that this quote meets with your approval and look forward to receiving an order from you.
When you are ready to place an order, you may make the payment by credit card or wire transfer. Or you can send us a PO (purchase order) by email or fax, including your shipping/billing addresses and your contact information. We will process your order ASAP.

www.alfa-chemistry.com

2200 Smithtown Avenue, Room 1
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779-7329, USA
Tel: info@alfa-chemistry.com

Click to expand...

David - from my point, and I guess there is quite a lot logic behind, all depends in the scale .
If you need special chems for darkroom work with films the supply is coming from the chemical
industry.
BTW : We may notice lots oft restrictions in the western industrial countries to chemical manufacturers. Many many chemicals are coming from companies with well known names.
But years ago I wonder about that there are also big manufacturers in India, China a.s.o.

OK - possible - wy should these ex. third world countries not have a kind of chemical industry?
They are not comparable with our "big players" of course !!

That's is short a real missunderstanding! I found out that immense parts of raw chemicals were produced in China for example.

So our well known big players are supported from countries some years ago known as developing countries with chemicals ? Right !
China is the worlds No.1 of cultivating areas for raw materials. China is in addition the No.1 of
manufacturers of all kind of chemicals. They dismantle it in there own country and process it there.

At last we are proud to have strong regulations in concern of environmental issues (special with chemical industry) and on the other hand our chemical players get it shipped from countries
with less regulation. Of course the finishing processes are made here!

Coming to pricing : If you order in China directly you may got a couple of chemicals with a price
you can come less than 50cent / pound! Perhaps you will have just 21 cent what may be great!
(Not to pay 35 USD per pound) the shipping costs are not so much! Perfect !

BUT AT FIRST THERE ARE REGULATIONS
- you will not get your ordered chems - instead of this - homeland security may ringing at your
door in sunday morning! And will ask you to come with them for a short visit : "we have just some questions Mr.Lyga , would you pls. come with us"!
But the main problem with direct orders from china is the minimum quantity.
You may have luck and you can get your stuff with 20kg!
But the normal case is 100 - 500 kg. (The problem for that quantitys beside the calculation is for sure that homeland security THEN is accompanied by the FBI they will have some further questions to you). It may cost you 2 full days !

In Texas you may have first interview from Texas Rangers what would last more than 2 full days.

But seriously David - the pricing for darkroom chems is in direct relation to the demand of the photo industry. This demand can be less than the original demand years ago with a factor of 0,2%!

THEN the key of avaiability is in direct concern to the function of your chem !
I would state more than 50% of our well known Photochems were used in other industrial production processes (and there in real high scales).
Some chems we urgend need are waste products of other chemical finishing.
That are the low priced photo chems (some of them).
Indeed you should get money from a chemical manufacturer if you order such stuff.
The more you order the better for the supplier (but there is the problem with Texas Rangers in Texas and Envirement Protection Agency in Philadelphia)!

So it goes about chems never used outside photoindustry (often produced exclusivly for Kodak/
ordered from Kodak as the only outlet for that chemical raw product).

And such chems get more expensive and more expensive at last you can't get it anywere
(discontinued) then you need a gold substitude (what is most possible)
David AFAIK sodium tetraphosphate belongs not to that category wich I last mentioned.
So you can feel confortable because it is avaible for aceptable pricing.
But so like some others stated : There are suppiers who don't want to call from David Lyga
to be ask about 500g because their interist is to ship orders of 30 kg of an other chemical
(a much cheaper chem from raw costs with higher pricing = max. profit).
You may imagine that not you are the right client for the supplier BUT (in reality) this supplier
isn't the right iin general. So never mind David and pls. stay in Philadelphia (less official regulation in comparison to Texas)

with greetings

David Lyga said:

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

Click to expand...

And, to add insult to injury, that hospital was a "not for profit". But the charge was based on the hospitals list price (chargemaster) which no insurance company pays. The chargemaster at most hospitals has rates that the mafia would be too embarrassed to charge. And the charge was far, far higher than the cost of the drug (though the drug is very expensive).

Likely the same situation with the price you were quoted. The company is not set up for small quantities at retail so their systems are designed for larger commercial orders. The ridiculous price you were quoted was probably generated automatically and never consciously reviewed by a human who actually knew what the item was. And the company may deal in chemicals where such a cost for such a small quantity might make sense.

I've encountered outrageous prices like this when I shop for chemicals at stores that cater to business and industry. Example: Metol at $60 / 100g, Sodium Sulfite at $15 per 100g...just absurd prices. Google and eBay are the amateurs' friends.


I guess it is kinda like buying a glass of wine at a restaurant...you pay as much for one glass as the whole bottle would cost at the super market.

David Lyga said:

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

Click to expand...

I just can't wrap my head around that medical bill! Up here it would cost nothing.

48,000$

There are no words that can say what I want to say right now.

David Lyga said:

I merely inquired as to what the price was for a small quantity of sodium tetraphosphate (discontinued Kodak Anti-Cal). I expected maybe $5 or so ... I am still in shock. And it would be coming from Long Island, only 100 miles away!!! Please, is there a LOGICAL explanation for this price? A pound of this stuff would be well into the tens of thousands!!!!

Dear David,
Thanks for your inquiry.
Please find below the price and availability for requested item.
Quote Number
*************
Name
Sodium tetraphosphate (P2O5, 60.3-61.5%)
CAS Number
7727-67-5
Quantity & Price
10 g 498 USD
20 g 798 USD

Shipping fee
90 USD
Handling fee
30 USD
Lead time
In stock, 1-2 weeks for delivery

Please indicate the quote number when you place an order. The quote is valid within 30 days.


If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated regarding this quotation.
A member of our support team will be following up with you shortly to provide further 1 on 1 support.

We hope that this quote meets with your approval and look forward to receiving an order from you.
When you are ready to place an order, you may make the payment by credit card or wire transfer. Or you can send us a PO (purchase order) by email or fax, including your shipping/billing addresses and your contact information. We will process your order ASAP.

www.alfa-chemistry.com

2200 Smithtown Avenue, Room 1
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779-7329, USA
Tel: info@alfa-chemistry.com

Click to expand...

David Lyga said:

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

Click to expand...

Evidently, the period or decimal point key is broken on their computer.

Andrew O'Neill said:

I just can't wrap my head around that medical bill! Up here it would cost nothing.

Click to expand...

The normal cost for that treatment is over $3,000 according to the CDC per this article. This was just price gouging by that hospital; for which they should lose their accreditation. As it stands now, the patient is paying $4,200 with her insurance company picking up the rest.

But you would have paid for it (collectively) in your taxes. If it typically costs $4,000 in the US, the bill to Canadian taxpayers would have been more like $2,000 to $3,000.

David Lyga said:

It is beyond that, Brian, and I wanted to post this just to show how so many things in life make absolutely NO SENSE. This morning I heard a story about a female biologist who is an animal lover. She saw a sick cat on the side of the road and fed it. It nipped her finger and drew a drop of blood. This was in Florida and there had been reports of rabies in the area. To take precautions, she went to an emergency room, got a shot, and then got a bill for her ten minutes at the ER. The bill is $48,000. If that is not nuts, then I am nuts. The bill is 'legitimate' and her insurer is fighting this. There HAS to be a common denominator for life which sanctions such idiocy and greed. 'Nuff said. - David Lyga

Click to expand...

obviously there was sodium tetraphosphate in the syringe and it was purchased at alfa chemistry !
if she had gotten her rabbies vaccination at a drop in clinic / minute clinc like most people it would have been almost free
because well, they get all their syringe-fillers off of ebay or alibaba

NB23 said:

48,000$

There are no words that can say what I want to say right now.

Click to expand...

Welcome to America. This is all I am going to say as it will deteriorate into Political stuff.

@David Lyga Could there be a difference between grades for the chemicals. The purer the grade the higher the price?

What is the chemical used for?

At that point, why charge ONLY 48,000$? What’s the limit?

I’d go full house 480,001$. Rip it all the way.

mgb74 said:

The normal cost for that treatment is over $3,000 according to the CDC per this article. This was just price gouging by that hospital; for which they should lose their accreditation. As it stands now, the patient is paying $4,200 with her insurance company picking up the rest.

But you would have paid for it (collectively) in your taxes. If it typically costs $4,000 in the US, the bill to Canadian taxpayers would have been more like $2,000 to $3,000.

Click to expand...

And I am quite happy to pay those taxes to help my fellow Canadians.

My first wife cost a lot more than I figured when I married her. Life's unfair.

Andrew O'Neill said:

I just can't wrap my head around that medical bill! Up here it would cost nothing.

Click to expand...

If somebody from the States tells you there is nothing like the USA ... tell him you agree, and say, within the same breath, "thankfully I am in Canada.". -David Lyga

A couple of years ago I wanted to experiment with homebrew color developers and I was searching high and low for some CD3 and CD4, which is pretty much unobtainable here in South Africa. I contacted one of the smaller manufacturers in China, but as I expected their minimum orders were still too big for me. However, they offered to send me free samples -- 50g of each chemical, which actually would have enabled me to make quite a few liters of developer. Unfortunately, the shipping cost would have been pretty high, so I decided against it. When they didn't hear from me for a while, they contacted me again to find out if I didn't want the samples -- that's how keen they were on building new business relations, even though I had made it very clear from the outset that I would only be interested in small quantities. The communication was so friendly and helpful (without being pushy), I was almost persuaded to take up the offer. With that kind of approach, no wonder Chinese industries have been doing so well.

I take it that the $498 does not have a decimal point missing between the 4 and the 9? I ask because the answer was in written form so I take it that this was not simply written confirmation of a conversation over the telephone first?

Just a thought

pentaxuser

David Lyga said:

I merely inquired as to what the price was for a small quantity of sodium tetraphosphate (discontinued Kodak Anti-Cal). I expected maybe $5 or so ... I am still in shock. And it would be coming from Long Island, only 100 miles away!!! Please, is there a LOGICAL explanation for this price? A pound of this stuff would be well into the tens of thousands!!!!

Dear David,
Thanks for your inquiry.
Please find below the price and availability for requested item.
Quote Number
*************
Name
Sodium tetraphosphate (P2O5, 60.3-61.5%)
CAS Number
7727-67-5
Quantity & Price
10 g 498 USD
20 g 798 USD

Shipping fee
90 USD
Handling fee
30 USD
Lead time
In stock, 1-2 weeks for delivery

Please indicate the quote number when you place an order. The quote is valid within 30 days.


If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated regarding this quotation.
A member of our support team will be following up with you shortly to provide further 1 on 1 support.

We hope that this quote meets with your approval and look forward to receiving an order from you.
When you are ready to place an order, you may make the payment by credit card or wire transfer. Or you can send us a PO (purchase order) by email or fax, including your shipping/billing addresses and your contact information. We will process your order ASAP.

www.alfa-chemistry.com

2200 Smithtown Avenue, Room 1
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779-7329, USA
Tel: info@alfa-chemistry.com

Click to expand...

isn't this also known ismply known as 'Calgon'?I believe you van get Photocalgon in Germany for about !%$ for 90g.