I am sorry I did not attend the conference....But....

Kerik said:

Of course not. If you actually read my post, it says that (in MY opinion) it's futile to try and control what is discussed in a public forum and it just pisses people off, which seems to be a sport for you. As much as it is your right to state your opinion, it is other people's right to discuss whatever the hell they want for as long as they want to! Have you noticed that these "hey, would you guys stop talking about this topic" threads never end amicably and generate needless ill-will?!?!? Or perhaps that is their purpose.

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Kerik,

I have nothing against anyone, I do however have an opinion about things that is all, I was not trying to create ill-will with you the last time we spoke and I am not trying to create ill-will this time, my whole point in this, is the people who didn't attend are starting to express bad feelings because they didn't attend...myself personally, think that all would attend if they had the opportunity, I as many others don't like to be made to feel guilty because we didn't, this last week has been interesting to say the least, but again, I don't have ill will at all tword anyone, but I do have differing opinions than others.

Dave

Satinsnow said:

I am getting tired of the posts trying to make people feel guilty because they could not afford, had schedualing conflicts or have family to consider before photography, I think plenty of answers have been provided over the last week, that should allow anyone that wishes to organaize and event of this nature, I am sure 2007 will be bigger and better, but I really don't think much is being accomplished anymore, there were those who attended and had a great time, there were those who wanted to attend and wished they could of, then there are those who didn't attend and don't have any desire to attend.

Would it be possible to leave it at that and not continue to drive this subject into the ground?

Dave

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Sorry Dave. Don't see it that way. Personal feelings of guilt about something other people say are one's own problem to deal with. And it seems to me that the organisers of the event are the ones to gauge when they have "plenty of answers ... provided". Especially when the organisers put in the hours they have done for the purposes of wanted nothing more than to say Film is Alive & Well and having a party.

Personally I'd like to read about the convention even more. And when I've read enough, I'll stop. Wish I'd been able to attend and have no feelings of guilt about not being there.

Curt's post is ... frankly ... bizzare.

John.
Geographically as far outside this club as is possible, and not feeling it.

John,

I would love to read about the conference itself and to see what went on, my whole point is that others are being made to feel bad because they didn't attend and when suggestions for future events are made they are being thown aside, I want to hear about the event, but I don't think those that could not attend because of what ever reason should be made to explain themselves.

I just think there are other ways to accertain, why those that didn't attend, other than publically..

Dave

You don't have to give your reasons.

The purpose of asking was so the convention could be made to entice/accomodate more numbers next time. i.e. make it better.

John explained; as a key organiser he tried to obtain sufficient feedback for his purposes privately. He is quite entitled to try publicly. No?

Satinsnow said:

I agree Jennette,

I am logging off for the evening.

Dave

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BWGirl,
This is where you chime in with "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!"

Chris

Sorry Chris,

I woke up and completed the other project I was working on...

I just don't think it is fair to make people say in a public forum, they didn't have the money...we can all make excuses, but this was expensive for most people, and again, I have nothing but admiration for those who organized this event, for a first time event I would say it was a great success...

I am not against, I am not lobbying for a certain location, but I would like to see the information gathering handled a different way...

I would like to see more pictures and hear more trip reports, I couldn't attend and though others I might be able to get a feel for what actually went on, yes the social side is important, but I would like to hear about the nuts and bolts of the event.

For those who think I am an enemy, or you have made an enemy because my opinion is different, you could not be father from the truth, this was an opinion, plain and simple, it could be valid and it might not be valid, I am for Traditional photography 100% plain and simple and will always question things we do, that can be done better to further our passion.

Dave

As far as I can tell all conference posts reside in the conference forum. If some members have had enough chatter about the conference they should simply add the conference forum to their 'ignore forum' list and you'll never see the posts again. People are participating in a variety of conference discussions because they want to discuss all facets of it. I agree with Kerik's statement 110%: "it's futile to try and tell people what NOT to talk about on a public forum and only results in animosity". I have witnessed this on apug and dozens of other forums and it always gets nasty..

Satinsnow said:

Sorry Chris,

I woke up and completed the other project I was working on...

I just don't think it is fair to make people say in a public forum, they didn't have the money...we can all make excuses, but this was expensive for most people, and again, I have nothing but admiration for those who organized this event, for a first time event I would say it was a great success...

I am not against, I am not lobbying for a certain location, but I would like to see the information gathering handled a different way...

I would like to see more pictures and hear more trip reports, I couldn't attend and though others I might be able to get a feel for what actually went on, yes the social side is important, but I would like to hear about the nuts and bolts of the event.

For those who think I am an enemy, or you have made an enemy because my opinion is different, you could not be father from the truth, this was an opinion, plain and simple, it could be valid and it might not be valid, I am for Traditional photography 100% plain and simple and will always question things we do, that can be done better to further our passion.

Dave

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Dave,
No need to apologize. I was just trying to lighten the mood.
In all honesty, I was a little disappointed by the posts also. I think post-mortem analysis of the show could have been done with a survey, rather than asking folks why they didn't come. It just seems confrontational. I had other commitments, but doubt I would have attended anyway.
I'm glad everyone thought it was a success, but 100 doesn't seem like much. Maybe I'm just used to larger scale conferences (attendance in the thousands at Miami Beach, Orlando, Las Vegas).
Being the first one, I'm sure there was a lot of uncertainty. With a year to plan, and hearing the rave reviews of this one, I'm positive next year's will have greater attendance. Lots can happen between now and then. Even I might go.

Chris

mrcallow said:

Andy I have some good stories to tell, but I'm fearful of retribution.

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Though my wife signed me up for the conference and paid my way, I had to back out because my nephew asked me to sponsor him for his confirmation that weekend. I really wanted to attend and appreciate, very much, each story I read about the conference, all of the photos of it, and all of the hard work you and others put into it. Please do share your experiences with us. I, for one, can't get enough of it.

Matt i spent an evening, after the conference closed for the night, dishing the the dirt with Les McLean, Simon Gallie, Suzan R and Dinesh that was as much fun as anything done at the conference. Simone, Les and Dinesh (Sue was far more circumspect)are great story tellers. I had a short walk and a talk with Poco (Michael Viet) down the train tracks behind the conference that will stick with me for a very long time. I made a brotherhood with bob carnie that will not be broken. I believe that those of us who wish to ride this horse after the automobile has come are a special group and those I met reinforced that belief. I also believe that those bitching about our attempts to make the conference better are either deluded or have another agenda.

mrcallow said:

I also believe that those bitching about our attempts to make the conference better are either deluded or have another agenda.

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John,

There is no delusion here, and there is no other agenda either, there is the belief that film photography can and will prevail in its present form, this is the same type of statment you made yesterday, that was not taken correctly, to say others are deluded or have an agenda, is plain wrong..and I for one don't understand why you continue to do this, other than it is your opinion, on the other side, there are those of us that have out opinions as well, or am I mistaken in that belief? I am 100% for analog photography, plain and simple, for some reason you seem to gloss over that fact and then you make accusations and inuendo about others thoughts..there is no bitching going on here, but differing ideas, what the heck is wrong with that?

Nobody has said you guys didn't do a great job, but we are asking questions and expressing opinions...

I agree, Dishing the dirt with Les, is probably one of the most memorable events of my life, he did spend a few days at my home last year, and I cherish those memories as well as the learning experiance that went on, spend a day photographing with Les and you will come away with a whole new appriciation of what photography is all about!

This is not a personal situation, but is a situation that can and will benefit the future of analog/traditional photography..don't take it personal John..

Dave

Dave put this forum on ignore.

mrcallow said:

Dave get over it and put this forum on ignore.

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John,

Why would I do that? I started this thread, your taking it personal, I am sorry to offended you so much..

Dave

i have don't have guilt about not going.
i think asking how the conference could
be better and more accessible for those who can't afford to
travel + lodge because "whatever" ... is what is expected
--- survey, on-forum, doesn't matter to me.

heck, i live 90 miles away from springfield and can't make it to ne apug events because of family "stuff" ...
as gene says, there will always be more get togethers.

i am happy these things happen, and i have my fingers crossed that the next time
(new england or international) it isn't when i am the designated kid-watcher.

great job john and everyone else ...

looking forward to the next one!

-john

Satinsnow said:

John,

Why would I do that? I started this thread, your taking it personal, I am sorry to offended you so much..

Dave

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Dave,
I don't take it personally, but I am through coddling you. I have played nice whilst you saw boogie men between the lines and it was a waste of my time.

My only goal is to find out how to make the conference better. What is your goal? If it is to stop reading about how to make it better then ignore the threads or forum.

I haven't dismissed anyones ideas, or glossed over anything.

If you don't think I gave you your due in the other thread, sorry I'll reread your posts and make sure I do.

This is such utter BS that I am left to wonder...

mrcallow said:

Dave put this forum on ignore.

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John,

I would also point out, that you have the power here, as a moderator, you have the ability to stifle my posts or delete all together, so I am not the one that continues to have the power you are, if you don't like what I am saying, then my suggestion would be to use your power as a moderator and delete my posts, I have nothing against you or the other organizers at all and from all reports and posts you did a fantastic job...so I don't quite understand..

Dave

Satinsnow said:

John,

Why would I do that? I started this thread, your taking it personal, I am sorry to offended you so much..

Dave

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You've stated your opinion Dave. Loudly. In the APUG Conference thread where everyone goes to read about .... da na na naaaaaa ... the conference.

Now you seem h*ll bent on shoving your opinion down everyones throat till they 'get it'.

It's not only John you are offending, Dave. Bad form ol' chap.

I am sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent, I guess I will just fade away, as it seems that some are treated diffrently than others around here..

Dave

Satinsnow said:

...there is no other agenda either, there is the belief that film photography can and will prevail in its present... blah, blah, blah

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Forgive me everyone...



Dave,

What a bunch of passive aggressive crap. No you're playing nice, standing up for others and being a champion of film? What next?

You speak of opinions? I stated an opinion... that you might not want to read the conference thread if it upset you so. In fact, reading back I was pretty nice about it, I never once implied an order to "NOT" read a thread. Several others have since done so as well. What did that get me??? I need no innuendo, you made your thoughts very clear. "What am I going to do...?" you asked when you continued your aggressive PMs to me after I have asked you not to? I'll say that I haven't had to deal with a childish display like that since I was on the playground in grade school. Your PMs didn't only annoy me, they frightened me and put a bad taste in my mouth for this place knowing bullies like you still exist in adulthood. The fact you are continually allowed to do this surprises me, but I suppose being a sponsor has its perks.

Let me just say this... It does my heart good that someone of your character thinks I am a jerk. I'll take that as a compliment.

Good riddance to you,

Bill

billschwab said:

Forgive me everyone...



Dave,

What a bunch of passive aggressive crap. No you're playing nice, standing up for others and being a champion of film? What next?

You speak of opinions? I stated an opinion... that you might not want to read the conference thread if it upset you so. In fact, reading back I was pretty nice about it, I never once implied an order to "NOT" read a thread. Several others have since done so as well. What did that get me??? I need no innuendo, you made your thoughts very clear. "What am I going to do...?" you asked when you continued your aggressive PMs to me after I have asked you not to? I'll say that I haven't had to deal with a childish display like that since I was on the playground in grade school. Your PMs didn't only annoy me, they frightened me and put a bad taste in my mouth for this place knowing bullies like you still exist in adulthood. The fact you are continually allowed to do this surprises me, but I suppose being a sponsor has its perks.

Let me just say this... It does my heart good that someone of your character thinks I am a jerk. I'll take that as a compliment.

Good riddance to you,

Bill

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Thanks Bill for your opinion,

I find it just as valid as mine, but at this point don't matter anymore, and don't worry about me being a sponsor any longer, I have requested that Sean terminate my sponsorship of the system, so you won't have to worry about me anylonger, as far as bullies, you have a long ways to go, to say your not a bully from the many posts of yours I have read...Feel free to call me what you will, I am not bothered..

Anybody ever notice the prolific posters of the past have been run off by your guys? Aggie, Jim, Lee, etc, there are very few posts around here by those guys anylonger, Shmoo, Mateo, Allen...just not alot going on around here anylonger, I would wonder why, but I guess not, I have a very strong feeling I know why..

By the way, if a PM "Frightens you" then I guess I don't know what to say, there is nothing typed on a computer screen that frightens me, so you must be pretty fraile...pretty typical stuff Bill, people say something behind a computer screen, you can be assured, if I say it to you here, I would say the same thing to you in person, at the most I sent you 3 PM's so I think that is a bit short of many PM's

I find it very disturbing, that a lot of what went on over on Photo.net, seems to be taking hold over here, very sad...

Very interesting, at least in my opinion.

Dave

At this point I don't really care what people are "trying" to say or not say. I'm more of a technocrat and not a social butterfly. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I am not looking for approval. Some people probably didn't go because of a host of reasons. I for one have had back surgery and am on a special diet preparing for my next surgery. I know there are other people who prefer not to be around a lot of drinking and eating for example. Lord knows I love to eat and I social drink. Other people may have personal problems that would prevent them from having a good time and they just can't be pressured at this point in their lives. A lot like the person who doesn't show up for a holiday.

My experience was that I enjoyed the first pictures that were posted, but the pictures stopped coming, I know that it's not the responsibility of the attendees to provide pictures, but they had a great time threads came and although I would have like to have gone I didn't. Then the "why didn't you come?" thread started. Personally that hit a sour note with me; no one sells me insurance I don't want. Don't understand that? I had my reasons for not coming and that's my deal. I realize that many don't have the advantage of a University education but wording is everything here. It reminds me of the kid who never went to dances because the kids in the family only had one pair of dress shoes and every Friday night the shoes when to the one who worked.

I think, my opinion, that interested parties or individuals should look at what Dave is saying and with an open mind work on figuring out what he is saying instead of taking what he said and picking parts to attack on. It is going to require some introspection and thinking along the lines of what experiences and conditions would you feel the same.

If you decide that this is to much or "unclean" then that is what you are. It shows the character of an individual how he/she treats a person who at one time respects and then totally trashes. I have never met Dave but I can say that he has been above board in everything I have read here and he doesn't need any defense from me. It does say a lot about the character of the members who lack the common decency of humanity to see that things are not always what they seem. What kind of a community is this when one of its most respected members wants to just fade away. How little are the people and how big they must feel insulting people without any understanding. I offer nothing more than this.

Curt

Satinsnow said:

...there is nothing typed on a computer screen that frightens me, so you must be pretty fraile...pretty typical stuff Bill...

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Can't quit the bully bit, eh? These days the whacko behind the screen on the Internet isn't just the whacko on the Net any longer, but I guess you might not watch the news up there. Yes, it frightens me. It frightens me to have someone not heed my request to stop harassing. This is what you did no matter how you try to paint it. Be it on the screen or in person. For now, thankfully, it is on the screen. I hope I never have the displeasure of the latter.

billschwab said:

Can't quit the bully bit, eh? These days the whacko behind the screen on the Internet isn't just the whacko on the Net any longer, but I guess you might not watch the news up there. Yes, it frightens me. It frightens me to have someone not heed my request to stop harassing. This is what you did no matter how you try to paint it. Be it on the screen or in person. For now, thankfully, it is on the screen. I hope I never have the displeasure of the latter.

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As I said Bill,

No worries anylonger, I will just fade away, you don't have to have any displeasure because of me, I would never wish that on anyone.

Bye.

Dave