I am Looking for a formula similar to (HC-110)

mohmad khatab · Apr 17, 2020

نعم ،،
ازداد الطلب على هذا المطور في بلدي مؤخرًا ، وقد تلقيت طلبات للعثور على أي إصدار بديل لهذا المطور.
بالطبع هذا مطور غير متوفر للبيع في السوق المحلية على الإطلاق.
لقد تخرجت من هذه الصيغة وأدركت أن إعداد هذا المطور من الصفر يكاد يكون مستحيلاً في الوقت الحاضر. إنها تحتاج إلى عناصر كيميائية غير متوفرة على الإطلاق ، واستيرادها يتطلب ثروة هائلة. في النهاية ، قد لا تعمل ، حتى لو حصلت على هذه المواد الكيميائية.
- لذلك ، أفكر في البحث عن أي صيغة بديلة مماثلة لتلك الصيغة الفريدة.
على غرار الصيغ البديلة ، والتي ثبت بعد النجاح أنها بديل للصيغة Rodinal.
ظهرت بعض الصيغ البديلة للمطور (Rodinal) ، وهي بالفعل مرضية نسبيًا ومقبولة إلى حد كبير.
- ولكن فيما يتعلق بالمطور (HC-110) ، لم أجد حتى الآن إجابة كاملة ، (((هل هناك أي صيغة يمكن تحضيرها من البداية يمكن أن تكون بديلة إلى حد ما أو حتى مشابهة جدًا لهذا المطور)) ) ؟؟؟
ليس لدي Pyrocatechin -. ربما سيتم الحصول على بيروغالول بشق الأنفس ويحتاج إلى الحصول على تصريح أمني لشرائه ، وهو خيار أخير بالنسبة لي.

أتمنى أن أستمع إلى نصيحة الزملاء والأساتذة الخبراء في هذا الأمر ، بارك الله فيكم ، ولا يسعني أن أهنئكم جميعاً على القيامة المجيدة.
تحياتي للجميع

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 17, 2020

Mohmad, there might not be any formula that will give you consistently good results at various dilutions like HC-110. If you are looking for just some developer that works well, is economical and lasts reasonably long, you can check out Adox MQ Borax replenished. You won't be disappointed.
Here's the formula posted by @Ian Grant:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-m-q-borax.155020/

John Bragg · Apr 17, 2020

Are you able to get Ilford chemicals ? Ilfotec HC is a near equivalent of HC-110.

Doremus Scudder · Apr 17, 2020

HC-110 was formulated to work similarly to D-76. If I were in your situation, i.e., needing to mix from scratch, I'd rather spend time sourcing the easier-to-find chemicals for D-76 and then just mix what I need per session. Results will be indistinguishable.

Doremus

mohmad khatab · Apr 17, 2020

John Bragg said:
Are you able to get Ilford chemicals ? Ilfotec HC is a near equivalent of HC-110.

Yes, I own many photochemical materials available.
I almost own most of the common chemical raw materials by 90%.
There is a list attached to all the chemicals I actually own.+ ( CD2) & (CD4) & p-Aminophenol
Unfortunately, Ilford products are not currently available in Egypt.

mohmad khatab · Apr 17, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
HC-110 was formulated to work similarly to D-76. If I were in your situation, i.e., needing to mix from scratch, I'd rather spend time sourcing the easier-to-find chemicals for D-76 and then just mix what I need per session. Results will be indistinguishable.

Doremus

Chemical raw materials are available, thank God.
But there are some rare materials that we cannot obtain that stand in the way between us and achieving this dream by preparing (HC110).
No one likes the D76 formula as it is said to be a formula without feelings.
Many amateurs love (Agfa 14) and other formats, but I can't find anyone asking about the D76.

mohmad khatab · Apr 17, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Mohmad, there might not be any formula that will give you consistently good results at various dilutions like HC-110. If you are looking for just some developer that works well, is economical and lasts reasonably long, you can check out Adox MQ Borax replenished. You won't be disappointed.
Here's the formula posted by @Ian Grant:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-m-q-borax.155020/

God bless you dear.
I will prepare that formula and I will test it as soon as I get the chance.

grainyvision · Apr 18, 2020

What properties are you looking for exactly? For the variable contrast aspect that might be kinda tough. For the very long shelf life though, many developers will work for this, especially if split into two parts. Two part developers are super simple to formulate yourself even.

Also for people too lazy to use a translator, this is the google translated version

Yeah ,,
The demand for this developer has increased in my country recently, and I received requests to find any alternative version for this developer.
Of course this is a developer that is not available for sale in the local market at all.
I graduated from this formula and realized that preparing this developer from scratch is almost impossible at present. It needs chemical elements that are not available at all, and importing them requires enormous wealth. In the end, it may not work, even if you get these chemicals.
Therefore, I am thinking of searching for any alternative form similar to that unique formula.
Similar to alternative formulas, which after success proved to be an alternative to Rodinal.
Some alternative formulas to the developer (Rodinal) have appeared, and are already relatively satisfactory and largely acceptable.
- But regarding the developer (HC-110), I have not yet found a complete answer, (((Is there any formula that can be prepared from the beginning that can be somewhat alternative or even very similar to this developer))) ???
I don't have Pyrocatechin -. Perhaps Perugallol will be painstakingly obtained and need a security clearance to buy it, which is a last resort for me.

I hope to listen to the advice of colleagues and professors who are experts in this matter. God bless you, and I cannot congratulate all of you on the glorious resurrection.
Greetings to all

dynachrome · Apr 18, 2020

You might try mixing up a batch of D-23. It only requires metol and sodium sulfite. Using it as a one-shot developer 1:1 will slightly increase sharpness and slightly increase grain. According to The Film Developing Cookbook, developing times should a little longer than for D-76 to get to the same contrast index. If you were using older films or older versions of existing films, you would see a bigger difference between HC-110 and D-23. With the current versions of Tri-X, TMX, TMY, or the comparable Ilford films I don't think you would see a big difference.

grain elevator · Apr 18, 2020

I'm just a hack, but (or therefore) I don't understand the desire for replicating the stuff. I'm kind of with you on D76, it's a bit "blah", and for me HC-110 falls in the same category. With regard to grain, sharpness, speed, it's a very average developer, almost anything can replace it and be "better" in at least one of these aspects.
My understanding is that for most users, the main benefits of HC-110 are the long shelf life (at least of the old formulation, the version Kodak sells now is supposedly not as long-lasting), flexibility with different dilutions, and economy with high dilutions. To get these characteristics, you wouldn't need to look for a chemically similar developer. Making the same kind of water-free concentrate (which gives this eternal shelf life) isn't doable anyway (Ron Mowrey has written here about how it was made, can't be done). Instead maybe think about PC-TEA? It's also (maybe only nearly) non-solvent like CH-110, if that's important.
I think I've read that HC-110 can give very straight curves, but the few users who want it for that can probably get that with other developers, too.

mohmad khatab · Apr 18, 2020

earlz said:
What properties are you looking for exactly? For the variable contrast aspect that might be kinda tough. For the very long shelf life though, many developers will work for this, especially if split into two parts. Two part developers are super simple to formulate yourself even.

Also for people too lazy to use a translator, this is the google translated version

Do you think the long life of this developer is the only reason why photographers just love it?

mohmad khatab · Apr 18, 2020

grain elevator said:
I'm just a hack, but (or therefore) I don't understand the desire for replicating the stuff. I'm kind of with you on D76, it's a bit "blah", and for me HC-110 falls in the same category. With regard to grain, sharpness, speed, it's a very average developer, almost anything can replace it and be "better" in at least one of these aspects.
My understanding is that for most users, the main benefits of HC-110 are the long shelf life (at least of the old formulation, the version Kodak sells now is supposedly not as long-lasting), flexibility with different dilutions, and economy with high dilutions. To get these characteristics, you wouldn't need to look for a chemically similar developer. Making the same kind of water-free concentrate (which gives this eternal shelf life) isn't doable anyway (Ron Mowrey has written here about how it was made, can't be done). Instead maybe think about PC-TEA? It's also (maybe only nearly) non-solvent like CH-110, if that's important.
I think I've read that HC-110 can give very straight curves, but the few users who want it for that can probably get that with other developers, too.

I did not mean to get a developer with a long lifespan, I meant to obtain the characteristics of the image produced by (HC-110) which, from the point of view of many, is unique, unusual and very distinctive.
- Please correct me if you see that my words are inaccurate.
I do not understand ,
What is the developer format (CH-110)?
Is it a typing error or is there already a formula with this symbol?
Greetings and my respect to you?

mohmad khatab · Apr 18, 2020

dynachrome said:
You might try mixing up a batch of D-23. It only requires metol and sodium sulfite. Using it as a one-shot developer 1:1 will slightly increase sharpness and slightly increase grain. According to The Film Developing Cookbook, developing times should a little longer than for D-76 to get to the same contrast index. If you were using older films or older versions of existing films, you would see a bigger difference between HC-110 and D-23. With the current versions of Tri-X, TMX, TMY, or the comparable Ilford films I don't think you would see a big difference.

I almost grasped your point of view, and it really is a point that deserves respect and appreciation.
Greetings and my respect to you?

grain elevator · Apr 18, 2020

Sorry, typo, there's no CH-110 that I know of.
If you can describe which "characteristics of the image produced by (HC-110)" you're interested in, people can probably help you better. To me, it's just a medium speed, medium grain, medium sharpness developer, of course varies a bit with dilution and so on...

Donald Qualls · Apr 18, 2020

In my experience, there are two characteristics of HC-110 that made it my #1 preferred commercial developer last time I had a running darkroom.

First, the concentrate keeps almost forever.

Second, by varying dilution you could get a fairly wide range of developer characteristics. Dilution B worked a lot like D-76 stock (and could even be replenished). Dilution A worked fast -- fast enough I could mix it with rapid fixer, add enough alkali (I used household clear ammonia) to bring the pH back), and get a workable experimental monobath. Dilution G worked well for higher sharpness (grain solvency drops with dilution) and Dilution H (half the strength of G) even more so. Ansel Adams like 1+119 for sharpness on big film (all the work that's really familiar was on 4x5 or larger formats).

For other developers, you pretty well need different developers for those different results -- D-76 or D-23 stocks for softening grain, Xtol or a Rodinal replica for higher sharpness, maybe high dilution Rodinal or some kind of Pyro where Ansel liked 1+119.

I've got what I think is a never-opened bottle of concentrate in my stash -- if being in the shed, temperatures from well below freezing to above 35 C haven't destroyed it, I should have enough of the old syrup for a year or two. Then I'll have to find out if the new HC-110 still does the same jobs.

But replace HC-110 with a single home brewed developer? I don't think that's possible.

Down Under · Apr 18, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Mohmad, there might not be any formula that will give you consistently good results at various dilutions like HC-110. If you are looking for just some developer that works well, is economical and lasts reasonably long, you can check out Adox MQ Borax replenished. You won't be disappointed.
Here's the formula posted by @Ian Grant:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-m-q-borax.155020/

I also strongly recommend this developer. I'm still using D76 for quick-mix, 99.95% reliable processing and for many years I worked with home brew Thornton's two bath (I used the Ansel Adams version for higher contrast). Last year, just for the heck of it I mixed up a batch of the Adox, and I've never looked back. Reliable, consistent results, long life, films can be shot at full speed, good contrast with a little extra time per D76 recommendations. Couldn't get better if it tried. With Ilford films, it gives a pleasant pattern to the mid-tones that I like.

Used with a little are, your results should be most satisfactory. I've found a 10% increase for slower films (ISO 100 or less) as these are a little more contrasty anyway, 20% with faster films, works best for me, even with my images shot in tropical light in Indonesia and Malaysia.

I should think Mohmad's Egyptian daytime desert shoots will be quite a challenge for any B&W film, but I reckon the Adox developer will deliver the results..

MattKing · Apr 18, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Dilution B worked a lot like D-76 stock (and could even be replenished).

I was replenishing dilution E for several years until I switched to X-Tol. I still have some replenisher, so I might switch back.

mohmad khatab · Apr 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
In my experience, there are two characteristics of HC-110 that made it my #1 preferred commercial developer last time I had a running darkroom.

First, the concentrate keeps almost forever.

Second, by varying dilution you could get a fairly wide range of developer characteristics. Dilution B worked a lot like D-76 stock (and could even be replenished). Dilution A worked fast -- fast enough I could mix it with rapid fixer, add enough alkali (I used household clear ammonia) to bring the pH back), and get a workable experimental monobath. Dilution G worked well for higher sharpness (grain solvency drops with dilution) and Dilution H (half the strength of G) even more so. Ansel Adams like 1+119 for sharpness on big film (all the work that's really familiar was on 4x5 or larger formats).

For other developers, you pretty well need different developers for those different results -- D-76 or D-23 stocks for softening grain, Xtol or a Rodinal replica for higher sharpness, maybe high dilution Rodinal or some kind of Pyro where Ansel liked 1+119.

I've got what I think is a never-opened bottle of concentrate in my stash -- if being in the shed, temperatures from well below freezing to above 35 C haven't destroyed it, I should have enough of the old syrup for a year or two. Then I'll have to find out if the new HC-110 still does the same jobs.

But replace HC-110 with a single home brewed developer? I don't think that's possible.

I know that you are the biggest lover of the HC-110 developer in the world, and I do not really hide from you ,, I am very impressed by this sincere love.
- If it was up to me, I would have brought you all the inventory of this developer (old version) available in the universe for you.
Greetings to you .
I am very interested in your suggestion. I think it is a very interesting and important proposal.
But I don’t have a developer (Xtol) ,,
Would you please help me to obtain an alternative form of it?
After that, you cooperate with me to determine the mixing ratios you suggest for the developers you mentioned?

mohmad khatab · Apr 19, 2020

ozmoose said:
I also strongly recommend this developer. I'm still using D76 for quick-mix, 99.95% reliable processing and for many years I worked with home brew Thornton's two bath (I used the Ansel Adams version for higher contrast). Last year, just for the heck of it I mixed up a batch of the Adox, and I've never looked back. Reliable, consistent results, long life, films can be shot at full speed, good contrast with a little extra time per D76 recommendations. Couldn't get better if it tried. With Ilford films, it gives a pleasant pattern to the mid-tones that I like.

Used with a little are, your results should be most satisfactory. I've found a 10% increase for slower films (ISO 100 or less) as these are a little more contrasty anyway, 20% with faster films, works best for me, even with my images shot in tropical light in Indonesia and Malaysia.

I should think Mohmad's Egyptian daytime desert shoots will be quite a challenge for any B&W film, but I reckon the Adox developer will deliver the results..

Nobody in Egypt loves a developer (D76) - this is a developer without feelings.
Technically, he may be somewhat successful, but on the other hand, he is the best developer who can gain more hatred and resentment.
Perhaps the underwater developer of Agfa 14 is gaining popularity in Egypt right now due to its success in dealing with expired films with great flexibility.
I don't know anything about the developer of ADOX that I talked about.
A: In general, my inquiry was clear from the beginning.
The developer Rodinal, an alternative has been devised, can give results somewhat close to it ,,, like this I was inquiring ,, is there any formula that can produce an image that is close to the results of (HC110), this is the original question.

mohmad khatab · Apr 19, 2020

grain elevator said:
Sorry, typo, there's no CH-110 that I know of.
If you can describe which "characteristics of the image produced by (HC-110)" you're interested in, people can probably help you better. To me, it's just a medium speed, medium grain, medium sharpness developer, of course varies a bit with dilution and so on...

Actually, I don’t know what the features of this developer are, and I don’t find it worth the fuss.
I personally love the cheap developer that gives good results at a minimal cost and I am comfortable with it very much, and it is (Agfa 14) very poor, very kind-hearted and very flexible. Also respectful and live a good period.
However ,, Egyptian plastic artists came to me, and they said that they are in the process of setting up an art exhibition that makes very large prints using non-traditional alternative printing methods, and they need a developer (HC110) because they have previous successful experiences with this developer ..
I gave them samples from a number of other developers and promised them to search for an alternative solution for this developer ..
The story in general does not interest me very much, but I am somewhat under moral pressure towards these artists ,, and I wanted to inquire about this issue because I only do what I have to do nothing more, nothing less.
God bless you.

Lachlan Young · Apr 19, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
Nobody in Egypt loves a developer (D76) - this is a developer without feelings.

That sounds like operator error.

Vaughn · Apr 19, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
That sounds like operator error.

Agreed...as well as an exaggeration. The 'feeling' is in the artist...not the materials.

Donald Qualls · Apr 19, 2020

@mohmad khatab As an alternative to Xtol, Google for Mytol. It's an ascorbate based developer similar in characteristics and use to Xtol. I haven't tried either actual Xtol or Mytol myself, so I can't directly comment on their characteristics, but I've seen video and read that Xtol is very good for high sharpness and minimal grain; it can be used replenished, or diluted 1+1, 1+2, or even 1+3 (observing minimum requirements for pre-dilution volume of stock per film area) with successive increases in grain and small increase in sharpness. Assuming Mytol works the same, I could easily do everything I need in black and white with Parodinal and Mytol.

Lachlan Young · Apr 19, 2020

Vaughn said:
Agreed...as well as an exaggeration. The 'feeling' is in the artist...not the materials.

The biggest problem is when people get fixated on specific developers without understanding how substitutable they really are...

mohmad khatab · Apr 19, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
That sounds like operator error.

Professional labs, mostly use Rodinal and developers (ORWO14), people are used to it.

I am Looking for a formula similar to (HC-110)

mohmad khatab

Raghu Kuvempunagar

John Bragg

Doremus Scudder

mohmad khatab

Attachments

mohmad khatab

mohmad khatab

grainyvision

dynachrome

grain elevator

mohmad khatab

mohmad khatab

mohmad khatab

grain elevator

Donald Qualls

Down Under

MattKing

Moderator

mohmad khatab

mohmad khatab

mohmad khatab

Lachlan Young

Vaughn

Donald Qualls

Lachlan Young

mohmad khatab

I am Looking for a formula similar to (HC-110)

Attachments

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency