I am happy with my 135 kit, now I need to complete my 120 kit

derelict

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I am happy with what I have for 35mm (Pentax P30T, MX, and Petri 35). I have been using a Zeiss Ercona 1 folder (105/ 3.5 6x9) and while I like it for walking around town (quite light meter reading and guessing distance is not too difficult) I am looking for something that is still portable but has interchangeable lenses for family and car show shooting situations, which is where a majority of my shooting happens. The folder is a perfect walk around town camera as it is light and portable but lacks in a few areas for me. I am looking for something more. My stipulation is that I am not looking for a tripod only machine and that I would like a waist level viewer. Open to TLR or the more typical 120 body. Must be able to handhold without too much difficulty.

I am used to the 135 and 6x9 aspect ratio but open to 6x6 or 645. I am looking to spend somewhere around $250 for a camera with general purpose lens and a 120 back (if required, which TLRs do not). I have played with a C330 and really liked it but also interested in other suggestions.
 

michr

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A lot depends on your definition of portable and on which format you prefer. I've found the Mamiya press to a pretty good camera to carry around and use handheld as long as you have a camera strap to take the weight off when I'm not using it. There's choice of multiple formats depending on which back you use as well as interchangeable lenses. There's no waist-level finder, just a rangefinder. If a waist-level finder is essential, then the Mamiya C330 is a great camera system that can be found at reasonable prices. However, don't forget about the Mamiya SLRs the RB67 and M645. Since both of these take interchangeable finders, waist-level finders are available. There are plenty of more expensive options out there, but with $250 to spend, I don't think you can do better for both image quality and reliability. But that's my opinion as a Mamiya fan.
 

baachitraka

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Rolleicord Va: Plenty of accessories, esp., Rolleinar I and Rolleinar II will allow to shoot portraits at close distance.

Zeiss Ikon Ikonta(Novar/Tessar): Super Ikontas come with coupled range-finder but I prefer one without a range-finder either coupled or un-coupled.
 

bdial

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One really nice thing about the C330 is its versatility. You get the interchangeable lenses, and because of the bellows focusing, you can do close up work without additional accessories (though the "para-mender" helps). It is heavy and big for a TLR though.
 
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derelict

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I thought about another folder but am looking for an SLR or TLR this go round.

The RB67 is a possibility. I will have to read up on the Rolleicord VA. Never heard of that model.

The C330 is really really attractive. The biggest mark against it is that it is heavy. I am assuming that an RB67 might be lighter?
 

baachitraka

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Mamiya(s) can be heavy but the advantage is inter-changeable lenses.

If not Rolleicord Va, you can try Rolleicord Vb which have an option to change the focus screen. Stock screen is plenty good but some prefer bright after market screens.
 

Paul Howell

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Mamyia C220 a sort stripped down but lighter C330, takes the same lens, in 6X6 Bronica system, although long in the tooth Kowa SL66, and if you can live with a fixed normal lens 80mm then of course Yashica 124 or D with the 4 element lens or Minolta autocord.
 
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derelict

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I have tried to find this but I cannot seem to create the correct string of words in search to find the difference between a C220 and a 330.

Bronica is on the list but I have read some not so good things about reliability. I have not found one to place my hands upon yet.

I played with a Yashica MAT 124 that was MINT (like, brand new), and it was way out of my price range due to condition.
 

Paul Howell

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There have been a couple of threads search C220 Vs C330, the C220 does not cock the shutter and has a knob for film advance, there are some other differences that don't to come to mind at the moment. Look for Yashica D with a 4 element lens, like the C220 D don't cock the shutter and has knob that a crank for film advance. I have both 124 and D and like the D as I am able to shoot double exposure. The Yasicamat is a 124 without the meter. Both are less expensive than the 124.
 

pbromaghin

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I love my Zeiss folder and Mamiya C-33 (older and heavier brother of the C-330) and agree with all the good things said about Mamiya TLRs. While it is heavy, it's really easy to shoot on a strap hanging around the neck with a cable release, making camera shake almost non-existent. You could also look at the Pentax 645 or 67. They both have interchangeable lenses and can be shot either at eye or waist level. Not sure of prices, but there are lots of them around.
 

Antonio Marques

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For a WLF, you can't go wrong with a Yashica TLR.
I have a Bronica ETRSI but it doesn't get all the use I'd like.
If it were now, I'd probably try to get a rangefinder.
 

Alan Gales

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I recently bought a C220. I wanted a medium format camera that used interchangeable lenses and was light enough to shoot hand held. I also favor waist level finders. I use the camera both inside and out. I found the focussing screen a bit dim for shooting indoors so I replaced the camera with the later C220 f which has a brighter focussing screen. The camera weighs the same as the Hasselblad that I used to own and the lenses are so much cheaper.

The C330 line is a little bit heavier, has interchangeable focussing screens, cocks the shutter with film advance, and has a better system for dealing with parallax. It also has two shutter release buttons instead of one.

I picked the C220 over the C330 for it's lighter weight due to my bad back. The C220 f screen is bright enough for me and snaps into focus well. Beattie screens are out there but you need a technician to install them. I don't mind cocking the shutter. I'm used to it with large format. I don't do much close up work but I did purchase the Paramender. You might as well because they are so cheap.
 

Paul in Arizona

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If a 6x6 TLR w/waist level finder is a consideration I will second the Yashica suggestions. I have a Yashica D and a Yashica 12. Both are wonderful cameras. The '12' has a crank film advance and shutter cocking while the 'D' is more basic. The '12' is a model just prior to the Y'Mat 124 and is reputed to be better built and significantly cheaper [if you can find one]. There is no reason for the flimsier 124G to be priced where it is but who can explain market prices? The Yashica D and Yashica 12 are excellent quality and good value.
I also have two Rolleiflexes and will risk being flamed here by saying that the '12' is preferable to the Rolleis if only because the focusing screen is so much brighter. Otherwise the ergonomics and photos are virtually the same.
 

Alan Gales

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Long post. Easy to miss the interchangeable lens sentence.
 

Kirks518

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I have, and use, the YashicaMat 124G, Mamiya C330, Mamiya M645 1000S, and the Mamiya RB67 ProSD. I had a C220, but moved up to the C330, and I'm glad I did, as the additional benefits are really great (self-cocking and the parallax primarily).

The 124G is fixed lens, so doesn't really fit your wants/needs. Good camera, but the interchangeable lenses of the Mamiya make the C330 my go to TLR 99% of the time.

The RB67's are beasts. While 'portable', they are really better suited for the studio and on a tripod. I know there are many that will argue that, but in my experience, lugging around an 8 lb camera is daunting. Not to mention any spare backs and lenses you may want to bring.

The M645 1000S has been my favorite now for quite a while. It's typically my first choice when I'm heading out. It's lightweight and comfortable to hold and operate. Available lenses are (IMO) great, and it also has the fastest medium format lens available, the 80mm f/1.9, which I love. Only drawback is the WLF are typically as expensive as the camera itself. I have a metered prism, which has proven to be very accurate, and I don't think I've used my WLF more then twice. I just like having it available if I want it.

There are 3 versions of the M645, the 'J', the 'M645 plain', and the 'M645 1000S'. The J is a somewhat stripped down version, and I've never used one. The main difference between the 'plain' and the 1000S is the max shutter speed on the 1000S is 1/1000, whereas on the plain it's only 1/500. I have found the 1/1000 shutter speed to be very useful. I did have a plain M645 until the frame counter stopped working, and then I moved to the 1000S.

If I were to only keep one system, it would be the M645 1000S, with the C330 running a close second. Part of that has to do with the fact that I have the 500mm and the 120mm Macro for the M645, and I do find I have a use for those lens. Even with the parallax indicator on the C330, macro work is really (IMO) difficult.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I'll put another thought out there for another option- a Kiev/Pentacon. Either the Kiev 88cm (a Hasselblad clone) or a Kiev 66/Pentacon 6. If you get one that has been gone over by Arax or Hartblei, the worst of the factory issues will have been resolved, and you'll be getting Zeiss-grade glass at Quantaray prices.
 

moto-uno

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Any of the Bronica ETR series would easily fit the bill ( I have all 3 in the series ). Having seen inside one of them ( don't ask why )
I'd be willing to say they're pretty robust cameras . They are way under valued ( that's a bonus) and easily hand held , great glass , many
accessories and ebay has quite a selection at good prices . Regards,Peter
 

MattKing

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Kirks518 said:
There are 3 versions of the M645, the 'J', the 'M645 plain', and the 'M645 1000S'.
Click to expand...
In addition, there are the more modern versions: the 645 Super, 645 Pro, 645 Pro Tl and the 645e.
The first three offer interchangeable film backs and viewfinders. The 645e has a fixed finder and doesn't allow changing backs, but does use the same film inserts that all the Mamiya 645 cameras use.
 

Jeff Bradford

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Hand-held portable medium format with interchangeable lenses and a waist-level finder is a pretty tough slot to fill. You could get a flash grip for the Mamiya TLR system.
There's the Koni-Omega Rapid system for 6x7 (I traded my Mamiyas for these), or there are a number of easily handheld 645 systems. I own the Pentax 645n and love it. Neither of these are waist-level finders.
 

mgb74

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First, take a look at your favorite car and family photos. Would they work better in square or rectangular format (sure, you can crop a rectangle to a square and vice versa, but why if you don't have to).

An ETRS with a grip and prism handles much like a 35mm (though obviously larger and heavier). Without the prism and grip, it's surprisingly compact. A C330 is much heavier, even more so with a prism. A Rollei or Yashica TLR eliminates (for practical purposes) interchangeable lenses and prisms.

For car shows, I suspect you need a wide angle. Any show I've been to has been too crowded to use a normal lens (the further away you are the more likely to have someone walk in front of you). A waist level finder (or 90 deg finder) is nice as I find myself often trying to get the camera lower when photographing a car.
 

M Carter

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The RB is a wonderful system. Very robust and simple, most common repairs are light seals and the occasional stuck shutter. And those negs... glorious. You could probably swing something in your budget (but if so, try for the Pro-S, many useful features).

Is it too heavy though? That's really a personal call. For something like a car show, you might use a small rolling case or even repurpose a rolling suitcase, carry-on size.

I've taken mine out in a medium photo backpack, with the (very big and heavy) 250mm to shoot huge statues. Shot it handheld with no issues, bright sunny day though. I'm in Texas, and walking a decent distance in the sun can be a workout with that setup... but then, I feel it's worth it to get that big, 3D looking negative.

I'd see if someone has one you could handle and play with. There's always the MF rangefinders, but man, I've paid less for vehicles!
 
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derelict

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Is the Russian MF stuff really Zeiss quality? I ask as I have read the opposite.

Thanks for the information about the weight of the RB 67. I am not interested in something that heavy. While the C330 is no light weight, it balances pretty well due to the layout. Is the Mamiya 645 really that much lighter?

The Kowa 66 intrigues me as well. People seem to like them, when they work.
 

baachitraka

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I don't know why very few recommendations for later Rolleicords. Its light, its cheap, focus screen strike a balance between brightness and sharpness, its accessories are plenty and what not...
 

narsuitus

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I once owned the C220, C22, and C2. All three were great hand held, portable, medium format cameras with interchangeable lenses and a waist level view finder. The C220 was my favorite.

The only reason I got rid of them is because Mamiya discontinued them and I could not replace my worn out cameras with new ones.
 
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