I am getting so much grain

ongakublue · Sep 14, 2015

Hi everyone,

I shot a roll of black and white Fomapan 100 in my minolta srt 101 recently. The darker pictures taken indoors looked fine to me but the ones outdoors were really grainy. So grainy as to make a few of them unusable. I suppose I am asking what could be causing this. I know the scanned resolution is really small here but that doesn't really make any difference to the look. It looks just like the print I had done by the lab. The pic of the girl is dire! Could it be an exposure issue? Something with the camera? Thanks for your help

sagai · Sep 14, 2015

Well ...
It's rather subjective if grain causes any problem.
It has a vintage look that I like a lot to be honest.

The think I am not sure of if you have nailed the focusing nor what development you had for the negs.

Also, the prints are digital prints of the scans?

I would simple love the results you had, distinct look with a hint of sentiment, good as it is!

darkosaric · Sep 14, 2015

hi,
probably scaning issue, but:
which lens and developer you used?

ongakublue · Sep 14, 2015

I agree the girl is not in focus exactly I think. I mean her face. The lens for both of these is a mc rokkor 55mm 1.7.

I don't know cause I didn't develop it myself. It was done in the lab which is one of the main developer labs in Prague.

The prints are not digital prints of the scans.

darkosaric · Sep 14, 2015

Since you are not developing films by yourself you will have not so much control. Switch to tmax 100 or delta 100, and check you focus on camera/lens setup. medium format is also good to consider.

sagai · Sep 14, 2015

ongakublue said:
I agree the girl is not in focus exactly I think. I mean her face. The lens for both of these is a mc rokkor 55mm 1.7.

I don't know cause I didn't develop it myself. It was done in the lab which is one of the main developer labs in Prague.

The prints are not digital prints of the scans.

Now we have two areas to improve on [emoji4]
Grain can develop radically based on development method unless deliberately chosen [emoji4] , that's for 1 hour or so in rodinal :

RobC · Sep 14, 2015

developing B+W film yourself is easy, requires very little and cheaply available equipment and will give you better results and most importantly you will know which chemicals were used and can control it all.

Hatchetman · Sep 14, 2015

post of photo of the negative itself so we can see the exposure.

RobC · Sep 14, 2015

oops, just re-read your first post and maybe you are doing dev yourself.

Please tell us your devlopment process.

developer, dilution, time and temp.
stop bath, dilution, time and temp
fixer, dilution, time and temp.
Wash water approx temp.

ALSO

which scanner

ongakublue · Sep 14, 2015

RobC said:
oops, just re-read your first post and maybe you are doing dev yourself.

Please tell us your devlopment process.

developer, dilution, time and temp.
stop bath, dilution, time and temp
fixer, dilution, time and temp.
Wash water approx temp.

ALSO

which scanner

Misunderstanding. I didn't develop myself. I have never done it but now I am tempted to try it. Maybe you or someone could help. It is not so easy in a country where I don't speak the language well. Shops tend to be unhelpful and not many people are into analogue. Have a look at this and does it look like a start. It's a kit for developing b/w film.

https://www.fotoskoda.cz/rollei-atp-1-1-kit-32-135-36-vyvojka-a-ustalovac/

georg16nik · Sep 14, 2015

Could be a lousy scan, you know...
But quite frankly, Fomapan 100 got real tight grain, so its very likely that your neg is underexposed and not processed accordingly and the scanner just extracted as much it could.
It's a wild guess without seeing the neg.

ongakublue · Sep 14, 2015

georg16nik said:
Could be a lousy scan, you know...
But quite frankly, Fomapan 100 got real tight grain, so its very likely that your neg is underexposed and not processed accordingly and the scanner just extracted as much it could.
It's a wild guess without seeing the neg.

I have the negatives. How do I show them here?

winger · Sep 14, 2015

It's really tough to tell from scans if I'm not the one who made the scan, but the girl looks underexposed to me. And it could be the combo of underexposed and a scan that's trying to equalize things based on programming and not by eye. If the contrast is increased, it may be improved. If you can do the developing, you can control much more. Yes, more chance for messing up, but I'd rather mess things up myself than let a person of unknown knowledge and skill do it.

Kiev88user · Sep 14, 2015

Hi, I used Fomapan 100 120 rollfilm to test a Salyut 'C' camera I rebuilt (cheapest film I could get!) and was quite impressed - a little grainier than I expected but I struggled to find development times on the 'net. In the end I averaged out the times for 100ASA films quoted by Ilfosol, negs looked OK. This is quite an old style film and to compare it with, say Ilford would be unfair I guess.

Steve

Sirius Glass · Sep 14, 2015

Since you do not develop the film yourself you do not have control over the grain.
If you go to a tabular grain film such as TMax you can get smaller grain with commercial processing.
Processing yourself is not hard. It requires a tank with reels, a darkroom bag, chemicals and a place to hang the film to dry. Printing without an enlarger is a bigger problem.

sagai · Sep 14, 2015

ongakublue said:
Misunderstanding. I didn't develop myself. I have never done it but now I am tempted to try it. Maybe you or someone could help. It is not so easy in a country where I don't speak the language well. Shops tend to be unhelpful and not many people are into analogue. Have a look at this and does it look like a start. It's a kit for developing b/w film.

https://www.fotoskoda.cz/rollei-atp-1-1-kit-32-135-36-vyvojka-a-ustalovac/

You are privileged in the Czech Republic!
This is shipping only to CZ, Poland and Slovakia in a bargain price:
http://fomaobchod.cz/

For development tank I would not go for anything else other than second hand for pennies.

blockend · Sep 14, 2015

I use Fomapan 100 regularly, mostly semi-stand developed in Rodinal type developers (RO9, etc). The grain is not intrusive and the tonality is good. RO9 is cheap, lasts indefinitely and at dilutions of 1:100 or less is extremely economical. At 100 ISO I give Foma 100 60 mins in RO9 at 1:100 or 90 mins 1:150, three gentle inversions at the beginning and two inversions after 45 mins. This produces a contrasty negative that scans and prints well.

RobC · Sep 14, 2015

A list of stuff you will need if you want to develop your own film. I'm sure others will suggest alternatives and some of the things I use others won't.

Film Changing Bag
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/819/firstcall-changing-bag-large
Developing Tank
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/757/jobo-developing-tank-1520-universal (note this tank comes with press on lid and not cog lid. I checked, the photo is wrong. The press on lid is required for hand inversion type processing which is what you will be doing)
Second reel for tank which is a very good thing to have. http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/760/jobo-developing-tank-1501-reel

Much cheaper option for developing tank (jobo above are best IMO)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/823/ap-developing-tank-universal
Measuring graduates
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/794/ap-measuring-cylinder-300ml (for measuring dev and fix)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/3999/ap-measuring-cylinder-100ml (for measuring dev and fix)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/796/ap-measuring-cylinder-50ml ( for measuring stop bath)
Thermometer
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/807/firstcall-thermometer-spirit
Film Leader retriever (optional, you can use a bottle opener to open film cassette)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/827/firstcall-film-retriever
Film Clips (for hanging film to dry. You need a pair for each film so 2 pairs is good)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/816/ap-film-clips-set-of-2
Mixing Jug (always useful, especially for mixing powdered developers)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/806/paterson-mixing-jug-2000ml
Bottles for mixing chemistry to working strength ( you need 3 of these )
http://www.firstcall-photographic.c...o-chemical-storage-bottle-3372b-black-1-litre
Storage bottles for mixed developer stock if you need them (optional depending on use of powder developer)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/782/tetenal-chemical-storage-bottle-1-litre
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/777/tetenal-chemical-storage-bottle-5-litres
Sharp Scissors
required to cut film from canister and trim off leader tab and sharp corners. And to cut film into strips after dev.
Film Developer (liquid developers keep well and very easy to use)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/493/tetenal-ultrafin-film-developer-1-litre (general purpose and economical developer)
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/492/tetenal-ultrafin-t-plus-film-developer-500ml ( very fine grain developer )

Note: powder developers may be cheaper but only keep for approx 6 months depending on how much air you let get to them in storage.
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/490/kodak-xtol-film-developer-5-litres (highly rated fine grain developer and economical (a good choice)
Stop Bath
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/544/champion-stop-bath-1-litre
Fixer
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/546/champion-amfix-fixer-5-litres
Negative holder sheets
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/1801/kenro-negative-pages-paper-35mm-25-sheets
Note: clear ones might seem like a good idea but your film WILL stick to them sooner or later and the neg will probably be ruined.

Jerevan · Sep 14, 2015

I think a darkroom print of the car could look really nice.

sagai · Sep 14, 2015

C'mon Rob ...
Why an earth would need all of these for 35mm amateur home development??!!!

Distilled water, rodinal, fixer, second hand development tank, measuring tube for 10 centi liter. That's all the burden on the household.
All the rest of it is already in the house.

RobC · Sep 14, 2015

sagai said:
C'mon Rob ...
Why an earth would need all of these for 35mm amateur home development??!!!

Distilled water, rodinal, fixer, second hand development tank, measuring tube for 10 centi liter. That's all the burden on the household.
All the rest of it is already in the house.

So what do you use a changing bag for in your house?

You know he's not obliged to buy it all new, but at least he has idea of what he will need now.

georg16nik · Sep 14, 2015

ongakublue said:
I have the negatives. How do I show them here?

It's faster if you check the following link and relate the contrast and tonality of your film to one of the samples.
http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/p/how-to-read-negative.html

ongakublue · Sep 14, 2015

georg16nik said:
It's faster if you check the following link and relate the contrast and tonality of your film to one of the samples.
http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/p/how-to-read-negative.html

Based on this, it looks like the images were overexposed a lot. The negatives of the car and the girl seem really dark...

sagai · Sep 14, 2015

RobC said:
So what do you use a changing bag for in your house?

You know he's not obliged to buy it all new, but at least he has idea of what he will need now.

My restroom is for that
Plenty of room there even for 3 canisters and a 2 canisters tanks loading consecutively

Richard S. (rich815) · Sep 14, 2015

Overexposure can cause graininess too.

I am getting so much grain

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