I am fed up with yellow stain!

Dali · May 13, 2010

Yes, it starts to be boring...

Yesterday, after 18 months without lab, I finally develop some papers. And, bad luck, all of them got a bloody yellow stain near the edge, far enough not only to stain the margin but also the prints.

I used my regular developemnt process (2.5 minutes Dektol + slight rince with very waek fixer bath + 2 minutes Ilford fixer) and noticed the trouble as I started to wash the prints.

I bought the paper I used (Ilford MG FB) 20 months ago and stored it in a cool place.

So, is the paper too old or can it comes from something else?

NOTA: I had by the past a similar trouble with Oriental FB paper.

Shawn Dougherty · May 13, 2010

Sounds like you need to use a stop bath and/or fix longer or at a greater strength.

DanielStone · May 13, 2010

no stop bath?

I've read also(haven't tried it yet though), that giving a 1min wash before the first fixing bath can help extend its life. Even better if you use a 2-fixer bath process.

-Dan

Don12x20 · May 13, 2010

Only one time I have seen this it was caused by: Are you using a indicator stop bath with RC paper? If that is the case, switch to plain acetic acid (diluted).

Ian Grant · May 13, 2010

Multigrade FB is not an RC paper

You need to use a 2 bath fixing sequence to ensure proper fixing has occurred.

ian

Anon Ymous · May 13, 2010

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) might prove to be relevant, but I'd echo what Ian said about 2 bath fixing. I'd also use a proper stop bath. BTW, indicator stop baths haven't caused me any trouble, with any of the RC, or FB papers that I have used.

pentaxuser · May 13, 2010

Don12x20 said:
Only one time I have seen this it was caused by: Are you using a indicator stop bath with RC paper? If that is the case, switch to plain acetic acid (diluted).

What do you believe is the problem using an indicator stop bath with RC paper that causes a similar yellow stain problem cited by the OP?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Bob-D659 · May 13, 2010

Weak fixer is not a stop bath, you would be better off with a good rinse in clean water. Any chance that yellow stain is right where your thumb ends up when handling the print?

kevs · May 13, 2010

Hi, Dali - from the thread noted by 'Anon Ymous', I see you've had this (or a similar) problem before. I'll echo the posts above: If you take the paper straight from developer into the fixer, even a dilute one, the reaction causes the stains you are seeing. After developing, you should neutralise the retained dev with a fresh, full-strength acetic or citric acid stop bath (short stop) for at least two minutes. It's probably best to wash your hands after handling the prints between dev and stop too.

Been there... done that... good luck.

Steve Roberts · May 14, 2010

I experienced this same issue a couple of months ago. Searching here on APUG and elsewhere on the web threw up developer, stop, fixer, washing and the paper as possibilities. I hadn't done anything different to usual, so as I'd just opened a new box of 10" x 8" RC paper thought that might be the culprit. Next darkroom session, I used the very same stop, fixer and paper but of course fresh developer, and the problem wasn't there. My thoughts were that the problem is most likely (though by no means certainly) to have been with the developer, as the affected prints were at the end of a session. I'm sure, though, that in the past I've used developer that has seen a lot more throughput with inevitably more exhaustion and not experienced the problem, so perhaps there's more to it than meets the eye. The staining in my case was a light straw colour, which could easily be overlooked on parts of the edge that were other than white (I print borderless) though once I knew it was there it stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Steve

RobertV · May 14, 2010

It's called dichroitic stain. You are not using a stop bath so the fix process is irrigular. Sometimes you see it too on automatic roller developing machines were the rollers are worn out. Always a problem in a two bath system. When using trays, ALWAYS use a stop bath.
You can remove the stain with a Sodium Sulfite solution (HCA) and refix.

Dali · May 14, 2010

Thanks for your inputs but I am still puzzled...

First, my prints being rather small, I manipulate them with pliers, not with bare hands, so no contamination possible.

Too, I don't really understand why NOT using a stop bath would creat colored zones on the print...

Last, I experienced a similar trouble a few years ago and I got rid of the problem by changing of paper batch. So, maybe my paper is too old, I don't know... Is there any expiration date (once again, I stored it in a rather cool place)???

Anyway, I will give another try from the same batch of paper using a fresh developer, a home-made bath stop (from vinegar) and a brand new bottle of fixer. And if there are still stains, I will switch of paper batch ( I have some Kentmere FB to try) to make things clear!

Take care.

Bob-D659 · May 14, 2010

Unless your pliers are plastic or type 316 stainless steel that could cause the problem, photo chemicals attack steel, giving you iron stains.

Rick A · May 14, 2010

Dali said:
Thanks for your inputs but I am still puzzled...

First, my prints being rather small, I manipulate them with pliers, not with bare hands, so no contamination possible.

Too, I don't really understand why NOT using a stop bath would creat colored zones on the print...

Last, I experienced a similar trouble a few years ago and I got rid of the problem by changing of paper batch. So, maybe my paper is too old, I don't know... Is there any expiration date (once again, I stored it in a rather cool place)???

Anyway, I will give another try from the same batch of paper using a fresh developer, a home-made bath stop (from vinegar) and a brand new bottle of fixer. And if there are still stains, I will switch of paper batch ( I have some Kentmere FB to try) to make things clear!

Take care.

Those pliers aren't by any chance the rusted, greasy ones you forgot to wipe down last time you used them, are they? I prefer plastic, locking type tongs (never bamboo) that are available at Freestyle. I like the lock type so I can hold them over the tray without getting cramps in my arthritic hands.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 14, 2010

Do you follow the instructions on the developer / stop bath / fixer bottles?

It is important to neutralize the developer by using a stop bath before you put the print into the fixer. Why would you not want to use a full strength stop bath?

The people that put the instructions on the bottles/packages of the chemistry you're using know a lot about photography.

If you do follow their instructions, you use clean tongs and trays, and your chemistry is fresh, you might want to suspect your paper of being too old.

Just making sure you're doing it by the book. Good luck!

- Thomas

Dali said:
Thanks for your inputs but I am still puzzled...

First, my prints being rather small, I manipulate them with pliers, not with bare hands, so no contamination possible.

Too, I don't really understand why NOT using a stop bath would creat colored zones on the print...

Last, I experienced a similar trouble a few years ago and I got rid of the problem by changing of paper batch. So, maybe my paper is too old, I don't know... Is there any expiration date (once again, I stored it in a rather cool place)???

Anyway, I will give another try from the same batch of paper using a fresh developer, a home-made bath stop (from vinegar) and a brand new bottle of fixer. And if there are still stains, I will switch of paper batch ( I have some Kentmere FB to try) to make things clear!

Take care.

R gould · May 14, 2010

I echo what others have said, develop, then use either an indicator stop bath at the correct dilution, followed by a two bath fixer, 2 minutes in each fixer bath, followed by a brief wash then I would use hypo clearing agent followed by a full wash for FB paper, for RC paper Develop, stop bath/plain water then single fix followed by wash, and that should sort out your stain problem,Remember if you use plain water stop bath then change it after 2 or 3 prints,Richard

R gould · May 14, 2010

Yor paper should be fine,20 months is not that long, I have stored paper for longer, in fact I am still using foma paper that I have kept in the fridge for over 2 years,and it is printing fine, remember to let warm to room temperture before you use it.Richard

Dali · May 14, 2010

My pliers are stainless steel made and not greasy or rusty...

If I have enough time, I will give a try Saturday night with freshly brewed developer-stop bath-fixer. Keep posted!

frobozz · May 14, 2010

ralnphot said:
Those pliers aren't by any chance the rusted, greasy ones you forgot to wipe down last time you used them, are they? I prefer plastic, locking type tongs (never bamboo) that are available at Freestyle. I like the lock type so I can hold them over the tray without getting cramps in my arthritic hands.

A fellow bamboo-tong-hater!

I never liked them to begin with, but having bought up a few disassembled darkrooms now, I can say there's just nothing in the world nastier than an old set of bamboo tongs, with the chemicals all soaked up into the wood and gone bad, the rubber tips splitting and falling into everything. Ick. First thing I do is toss all the bamboo tongs.

Duncan

ic-racer · May 14, 2010

I don't really understand why NOT using a stop bath would creat colored zones on the print...

Please give my your mailing address so I can send you a 95 cent bottle of White Vinegar!

Dali · May 14, 2010

Thanks ic-racer but I already have some at home (just have to ask my wife where did she put the bottle....)!

ic-racer · May 14, 2010

Dali said:
Thanks ic-racer but I already have some at home (just have to ask my wife where did she put the bottle....)!

Seriously though, try it with a stop bath and fix for enough time based on the paper type and report back if the stains are gone.

If they are still there, can you scan it and post it?

removed account4 · May 14, 2010

frobozz said:
A fellow bamboo-tong-hater!

I never liked them to begin with, but having bought up a few disassembled darkrooms now, I can say there's just nothing in the world nastier than an old set of bamboo tongs, with the chemicals all soaked up into the wood and gone bad, the rubber tips splitting and falling into everything. Ick. First thing I do is toss all the bamboo tongs.

Duncan

huh ?

i have been bamboo tongs for 20+ years and have never had trouble with them.

you just have to rinse them and not cross contaminate them...
i have the same "vintage" trays too ...

Thomas Bertilsson · May 14, 2010

Seems to be working for you too by the results of your printing, John!
I just looked at the print you sent me a couple of years ago, and it is astonishing!

jnanian said:
huh ?

i have been bamboo tongs for 20+ years and have never had trouble with them.

you just have to rinse them and not cross contaminate them...
i have the same "vintage" trays too ...

lloyd · May 15, 2010

this is from the Adox data sheet for MCC110:

The stop bath stops development. This prevents
post-development and the formation of yellow fog.
It also neutralises the alkaline parts of the developer
in the photographic layer, and so prolongs the
fixers life.

I've wondered what this was all about since I read this, as I've never heard of this 'yellow fog'

I am fed up with yellow stain!

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