I’m new to this site from NY.

[Meryl Bader]

Attached is a slide/negative which is from the 1940’s. I’d like to scan it, however there is a backing that’s actually glued to the back of the negative. I’d appreciate any advice on how to remove the backing without damaging the negative. Thank you

 

[Lee Rust]

You might consider copying this image with a camera rather than risk damage by removing the backing.

 

[AgX]

Welcome!

What you got is a positive. (On film, which likely made you choose the term negative.)

The backing is there to diffuse the light from behind, to make the image on the film visible without seeing the background of your place.

I never saw such set, but the paper at the back is not intended to be stuck to the film, in case it is actually stuck.

 

[Meryl Bader]

You might consider copying this image with a camera rather than risk damage by removing the backing.

It’s impossible. Tried that already. Thx

 

[Meryl Bader]

Welcome!

What you got is a positive. (On film, which likely made you choose the term negative.)

The backing is there to diffuse the light from behind, to make the image on the film visible without seeing the background of your place.

I never saw such set, but the paper at the back is not intended to be stuck to the film, in case it is actually stuck.

 

[Meryl Bader]

Any suggestions for how to carefully remove this backing. I’ve been cleaning negatives with alcohol before I scan them. Wondering if alcohol will work on this

 

[MattKing]

Welcome.
This may be similar to an ambrotype or Daguerreotype - a negative which appears as a positive because of the reflective backing.
These can be copied, but it requires a specialized approach.

 

[AgX]

Welcome.
This may be similar to an ambrotype or Daguerreotype - a negative which appears as a positive because of the reflective backing.

No, in such case it would have a black rear cover. The positive effect in such cases being due the reflexion of the silver image, not the backing.

 

[bunip]

I'd try to transilluminate and make a contact copy. I made some even through thick cardboard.

 

[removed account4]

What does this image look like on a light table or against a window with light coming in from the back ? I ask because if it makes the image visible do that and then make your copy with a camera. ( I’m guessing that is what trans illumination means. . ) Be advised you might need super strong light.

.. stuff stuck to film or paper emulsion is extremely difficult to remove/ unstick.
I can’t find the thread offhand but do searches for frame glass stuck to print emulsion ... I’ve tried the prescribed remedy (warm water and photo flo and slowly peel away) , it it didn’t work well/ damaged the print. I’d hate to suggest something to damage your film.

 

[Meryl Bader]

What does this image look like on a light table or against a window with light coming in from the back ? I ask because if it makes the image visible do that and than make your copy with a camera I’m guessing that is what trans illumination means. . Be advised you might need super strong light.

.. stuff stuck to film or paper emulsion is extremely difficult to remove.
I can’t find the thread offhand but do searches for frame glass stuck to print emulsion ... I’ve tried the prescribed remedy ( warm water and photo flo and slowly peel away) , it it didn’t work well/ damaged the print. I’d hate to suggest something to damage your film.

We tried putting it in front of the window. No luck

What does this image look like on a light table or against a window with light coming in from the back ? I ask because if it makes the image visible do that and than make your copy with a camera I’m guessing that is what trans illumination means. . Be advised you might need super strong light.

.. stuff stuck to film or paper emulsion is extremely difficult to remove.
I can’t find the thread offhand but do searches for frame glass stuck to print emulsion ... I’ve tried the prescribed remedy ( warm water and photo flo and slowly peel away) , it it didn’t work well/ damaged the print. I’d hate to suggest something to damage your film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I had a similar problem with picture album of the 1940's and just had to scan through the plastic protective covers that were stuck to all the prints.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I found some old negatives that had been glued onto white backing paper, in storage here at school. Some of them go back to the 80's. Why the hell they did this is beyond me. Anyways, I soaked one negative strip in water overnight. I then gently rubbed the paper with my finger. The paper easily rubbed off, leaving the glue on the negative. I tried isopropyl alcohol and a cotton swab. Didn't work. I then tried acetone. It worked. If I were to give it a go with your piece of film, I'd scan it first... just in case... For the acetone treatment, I'd dab on a wee bit on a corner and see what happens. If it's working, proceed with caution. I have removed glue this way on my Great Grandfather's old negatives.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

... and I would only attempt this if the paper was glued on the base side of the film. If it's the emulsion side, forget it!!

 

[rick shaw]

I can't help with your film problem but do want to offer a warm welcome.

Stick around and join the fun!

 

[AgX]

I then tried acetone. It worked.

WARNING

Triacetate, thy typical film base, is dissolved by Acetone. It immediate marks the surface. Thus greatest care must be taken for the Acetone not to come into contact with the (typical blank) rear side or to penetrate the gelatin.

 

[removed account4]

We tried putting it in front of the window. No luck

Have you hold it up against a bright bulb ( flood light/flashlight)? it might take lighting it from behind AND in front to light it enough so you can
get an image on your sensor to fiddle with in photoshop. You might contact the New England Document Conservation Center ( https://www.nedcc.org ),
they are well versed in photographic conservation and might be able to give you an idea of how you can extract the image out off of the film.
if I had it, I'd use "film scan". and instead of the lid of your scanner ( that is if you have a flatbed ), I'd put a 100W ( or brighter ) bulb behind it and see if I could scan it that way.
part of the problem with lighting through the back is the stain on the paper will show through onto the image. ( that might be easy to remove with Digital Magic )
and as long as it was OK for me to destroy that lovely Art Deco card and backing, I'd take a sharp blade and carefully remove the card, then soak the film in warm water and carefully rub the paper
with my fingers as it gets soggy. I'd repeat this a few times, and then I'd take purel or another. brand you might have of sanitizing gel and put that on there and rub gently. Slowly the paper might dissolve so you can at least see the back side of the film, but then you will probably have issues of hardened-glue-gunk on the back of the film, which might or might not be able to be removed without damaging the film. Be warned, if you do a water soak + purel, be careful, soaking film in water for a long time is not good for the film.
good luck !
John

 

[Kino]

Do this at your OWN risk! I can only say what I would do and cannot guarantee the outcome.

First of all, try every avenue you can think of to make copies of the image as it is. If you totally mess it up, at least you will have something to fall back upon.

I would take a very sharp X-acto knife or scalpel and carefully cut around just outside of the raised edge of the encapsulated negative/positive (whatever it is) on the back side and see if it can be separated from the mount. There appears to be an air gap between the front mounting board and the encapsulated photo, so I would try to cut about 1/4 of an inch around the rectangle that defines the photo.

Carefully lift it out and see if it can be separated, but keep an eye on the image and if it starts to de-laminate or disintegrate, stop immediately. You could then reconstruct it with some acid free archival tape and restore it to it's former state, at least from the front.

If you do get it out, it will undoubtedly be very fragile so have a plan on how to handle it and store it BEFORE you find yourself holding a very fragile element with no place to set it down.

You could cut a frame of mounting board with an aperture just the same size as the existing matte board and have it standing by to gently place the film upon and start copying it over a light table.

In any event, go slow and stop immediately to avoid damaging the image if thing start to go badly.

From what I can see of your image, it is probably NOT negative or even positive film, but a very degraded paper print positive, so disassembly might not gain you much. Copying the image under various types of light, like florescent might be more productive or shooting a high resolution RAW image with the exposure kept fairly low and then playing with heavily manipulating the Curves function in Photoshop might work better.

My 2 cents....

 

[AgX]

From what I can see of your image, it is probably ... a very degraded paper print positive.

Seen the edge crease at the backing paper, this actually makes sense.

 

[cowanw]

Would you know if it were a tintype i.e. the image isn't metal is it?

 

[Sirius Glass]

.

Welcome to APUG Photrio!!​

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Don't waste your breath, Sirius Glass. I think he came only for help, didn't get any, so he buggered off. He hasn't been seen since Feb. If he did solve the issue, I'd love to know what he did.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Good to know. Thanks.