Hypo Clear Formulae: Any tried and tested suggestions?

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

Hello.

I think I might have just bought the last two packs of Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent in the UK! Absolutely no word of when it might be available again and it is something I use a lot of in my professional work as a printer. I was wondering if any members had suggestions for a formula for a Hypo Clear / Eliminator that they have used and are happy with. I've tried a couple of Sodium Sulfite / Sodium Metabisulfite recipies I've mixed myself from published formulae, but they remained cloudy when mixed, and dried with a bit of a chalky residue, so then had to put the prints through 1% Acetic Acid and re-wash. I did use plain North London tap water.

I know there is Ilford Wash Aid but it is sold in very expensive and small bottles which doesn't seem can be mixed from one bottle to amounts required for 16x20 and 20x24" prints. Any thoughts on the subject most welcome, but please, only suggestions if you've used a formula which works and are happy to share.

Many thanks
Mike

Steve Goldstein · May 11, 2023

Third hit in a google search:

Hipo clearing agent formula

Hi. Can somebody tell me the formula of Hipo Clearing Agent? I can't buy it in m y country, so I need to make the formula by my self with a local lab or somethin g. Thanks in advance Jorge

www.largeformatphotography.info

Be sure to read the entire thread, there's a big difference between Hypo Eliminator and Hypo Clear.

JPD · May 11, 2023

Since you are in London: https://www.processuk.net/WA50_Wash_Aid_1_Litre/p740597_5739159.aspx

One litre of the Fotospeed wash aid will make ten litres of working solution instead of Ilfords five, for the same price. I haven't tried this product myself and don't know how well it works with the London water, but the store I liked to is in London.

Michael Howard · May 11, 2023

For years I've just used Sodium Sulfite solution, never had any "cloudy" or "particles" problems. It's pretty much the old tried n true. Just mix it when needed, it doesn't store very long. Agfa used to recommend Sodium Carbonate solution for it's papers back in the day, I've used it as well.

Alan9940 · May 11, 2023

This is the formula I use:

Water (at 125F) 750 ml
Sodium Sulfite 200 g
Sodium Bisulfite 1 g
EDTA* 10 g
Water to make 1 L

The EDTA can be eliminated, if you don't have hard water. This is a stock solution that is mixed 1:9 with water to make a working solution. I use this only on paper (unless I have a film with stubborn anti-halation dye) for 3 - 4 mins, then final wash.

Anon Ymous · May 11, 2023

Mike Crawford said:
I've tried a couple of Sodium Sulfite / Sodium Metabisulfite recipies I've mixed myself from published formulae, but they remained cloudy when mixed, and dried with a bit of a chalky residue, so then had to put the prints through 1% Acetic Acid and re-wash. I did use plain North London tap water.

You have hard water and this mirrors my experience. If you can source some sodium hexametaphosphate, or EDTA-4Na and add a little bit (0,5g is more than enough), your solutions will remain clear.

Doremus Scudder · May 11, 2023

If your tap water isn't too hard, then it's a simple matter of 1 Tablespoon of sodium sulfite (or sulphite, if you prefer ) and a pinch of sodium bisulfite per liter, et voilà!

I've been using this with good results for years.

Doremus

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

JPD said:
Since you are in London: https://www.processuk.net/WA50_Wash_Aid_1_Litre/p740597_5739159.aspx

One litre of the Fotospeed wash aid will make ten litres of working solution instead of Ilfords five, for the same price. I haven't tried this product myself and don't know how well it works with the London water, but the store I liked to is in London.

Thanks. I've tried the Fotospeed, and while I really like Fotospeed products, (and use a lot of their digital paper too), it works out about three times the price of Kodak. Process Supplies are great! Have been a loyal customer for um.... a few decades! I wrote an article about them last year: https://amateurphotographer.com/tec...lies-britains-oldest-printing-supply-company/

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

Michael Howard said:
For years I've just used Sodium Sulfite solution, never had any "cloudy" or "particles" problems. It's pretty much the old tried n true. Just mix it when needed, it doesn't store very long. Agfa used to recommend Sodium Carbonate solution for it's papers back in the day, I've used it as well.

Thanks Michael. Reading on to other replies, looks like my hard water might be the problem, and some additives the solution!

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

Alan9940 said:
This is the formula I use:

Water (at 125F) 750 ml
Sodium Sulfite 200 g
Sodium Bisulfite 1 g
EDTA* 10 g
Water to make 1 L

The EDTA can be eliminated, if you don't have hard water. This is a stock solution that is mixed 1:9 with water to make a working solution. I use this only on paper (unless I have a film with stubborn anti-halation dye) for 3 - 4 mins, then final wash.

Thanks Alan. Just what I'm looking for. I think I might have rather hard water. Had to replace the kettle last week! Does the stock solution keep well?

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
You have hard water and this mirrors my experience. If you can source some sodium hexametaphosphate, or EDTA-4Na and add a little bit (0,5g is more than enough), your solutions will remain clear.

Many thanks. All pointing to hard water. My usual supplier doesn't stock EDTA though it's available on Amazon, though will check with a platinum printer friend where she gets hers from,

Mike Crawford · May 11, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
If your tap water isn't too hard, then it's a simple matter of 1 Tablespoon of sodium sulfite (or sulphite, if you prefer ) and a pinch of sodium bisulfite per liter, et voilà!

I've been using this with good results for years.

Doremus

Thanks Doremus. Looks like it's hard water giving me grief!

Cheers all! All very helpful.

Alan9940 · May 11, 2023

Mike Crawford said:
Thanks Alan. Just what I'm looking for. I think I might have rather hard water. Had to replace the kettle last week! Does the stock solution keep well?

I mix it with distilled water, but I typically use 1L in 6 - 8 months. Therefore, I know it keeps that long.

albada · May 11, 2023

Alan9940 said:
EDTA* 10 g

10 g/L of EDTA is a large amount. PE (Ron Mowrey) had 3.0 g/L in one of his formulae. I've found that 1.0 g/L of Disodium EDTA is sufficient for our hard water in southern California, so 3 g/L should handle anything.

Mark

JPD · May 11, 2023

Mike Crawford said:
Thanks. I've tried the Fotospeed, and while I really like Fotospeed products, (and use a lot of their digital paper too), it works out about three times the price of Kodak. Process Supplies are great! Have been a loyal customer for um.... a few decades! I wrote an article about them last year: https://amateurphotographer.com/tec...lies-britains-oldest-printing-supply-company/

Fun coincidence, and that's a very good article.

Mixing your own and adding a little EDTA seems to be the cheapest way to go. I have soft water so I just use a tablespoon of Sodium sulfite.

ags2mikon · May 11, 2023

I have been using 20 g of sodium sulfite per litre of RO water with a drop or two of photo flo. Been doing this for 40 years. There have been times that someone has closed down their darkroom and gave me Kodak hypo clearing agent and one time Perma-wash. I use it up and then go back to my own.

mshchem · May 12, 2023

Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent is like a rite to me. I remember buying it in a small yellow card stock box, had a waxed paper envelope liner inside the yellow box with red Kodak trademark. Instructions printed on the outside of the box. That takes me back to the 60's, I was a kid, with my Dad making prints on Kodak Medalist dbl wt G surface paper. Those were the days!

I have this stuff stocked in case the Bolsheviks come for our women and chemistry

eli griggs · May 12, 2023

I use to use Permawash, but for years now it's just been sodium sulfite and Walmart or Food Lyon distilled water, nothing else is needed with our Charlotte, N.C. water.

Doremus Scudder · May 12, 2023

albada said:
10 g/L of EDTA is a large amount. PE (Ron Mowrey) had 3.0 g/L in one of his formulae. I've found that 1.0 g/L of Disodium EDTA is sufficient for our hard water in southern California, so 3 g/L should handle anything.

Mark

Mark,

I think the formula you're referring to is for a stock solution to be diluted 1+9. That would significantly reduce the amount of EDTA in the working solution

Doremus

Doremus Scudder · May 12, 2023

Mike,

Mixing your wash aid in distilled water would certainly solve your hard water problem and alleviate the need for EDTA. If you end up not using distilled for the wash aid, you should really do so for film for a final 3-5 minute soak in wetting agent before hanging your film to dry. Use this one-batch and you won't have hard water spots on your film. Paper isn't as finicky and doesn't need that.

Best,

Doremus

Alan9940 · May 12, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
Mark,

I think the formula you're referring to is for a stock solution to be diluted 1+9. That would significantly reduce the amount of EDTA in the working solution

Doremus

Yes, thank you Doremus, I forgot to mention that.

albada · May 12, 2023

Alan9940 said:
Yes, thank you Doremus, I forgot to mention that.

You did mention that in your description, but I failed to notice in my haste. Sigh.

BTW, you're dissolving 200 g/L of sodium sulfite into warm water. The highest I've seen in a published formula is 125 g/L. Do you see any precipitate in winter when the concentrate is cool?

Alan9940 · May 12, 2023

albada said:
You did mention that in your description, but I failed to notice in my haste. Sigh.

BTW, you're dissolving 200 g/L of sodium sulfite into warm water. The highest I've seen in a published formula is 125 g/L. Do you see any precipitate in winter when the concentrate is cool?

Since I live in the desert, it really doesn't get cool here. My indoor ambient temp might hit 65F on really cool nights in the winter, but I've never noticed any precipitate.

markbau · May 16, 2023

The people who wrote the article, "Mysteries of the Vortex" recommended 1 tablespoon of sodium sulphite into 1 litre of water. I've used that for many years and tests for residual hypo have always been very good. No need to buy the packaged hypo clears, 500g of Sodium sulphite is all you need.

MattKing · May 16, 2023

As I understand it, the role of the Sodium Bisulfite is to ensure that the pH of the working solution is appropriate. Your need for it may depend on the water you use.

Hypo Clear Formulae: Any tried and tested suggestions?

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