HUUUUGE opportunity ...

removed account4 · Aug 27, 2018

I just received an email from well respected
Advertising Agency regarding a photograph
I uploaded on FlickR in last month.

Dear xxx,
I am an intern at XXX, XXX & XXX. We came across your
beautiful photograph "zyx" on FlickR. We are interested in
acquiring excluding usage rights to use your photograph in an advertising campaign
( Billboards in large cities, Direct Mail to our clients and Internet ) for xyz business,
perhaps you have heard of them?

Would $150.00 for exclusive rights be suitable?
We will have "follow up" opportunities in the months to come
where other photography you have made may also be selected.

Please contact me as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
xxx
(xxx) yyy-zzzz

Nodda Duma · Aug 27, 2018

Seems legit

RattyMouse · Aug 27, 2018

I got one of my images on a magazine cover from a publisher looking at my flickr page. Didnt make a dime off it but it's the crown of my photographic "career".

Eric Rose · Aug 27, 2018

Gell them to put at least two zeros on the end of the $150.00. What an insult!

removedacct1 · Aug 27, 2018

What Eric said. For a nation wide billboard/mailing campaign, they should be offering you at least 2K for EXCLUSIVE rights. (You are pretty much signing away any IP rights to the work, so price accordingly)
Unless you really don't care about the work and don't value it greatly, this offer is very much an insult. An advertising agency that makes such a paltry offer is thinking you are a nobody who they can tempt with a tiny morsel and stroke your self-esteem, because any advertising agency of size or ability knows the purchase of quality intellectual property is an expensive business.
But if you just want the thrill of seeing your photo on billboards, then go for it. If that's all that matters, then you may as well skip the fee entirely. I'm not judging, but there's no way I'd accept such a microscopic fee for exclusive rights to any of my work.

Pieter12 · Aug 27, 2018

I worked as an advertising art director/creative director for 40 years. The number is ridiculously low.
Either the intern has no clue what photography goes for, or the agency is using the intern as a ploy to pay peanuts.
Exclusive? To a particular industry (say, banking) or to advertising in general? The message does not state how long they want to use the image, either. All that is a factor in pricing.
If possible try to contact a stock agency like Getty Images to get an idea of what they would charge for a similar image and usage. Then discount that by 30% and you and the ad agency have a decent deal.

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 27, 2018

Always want something for nothing. Move the decimal over one to the right, then we'll talk.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 27, 2018

Make sure you're aware what rights are they getting for $150. If it's a buyout, they own it. I'm just saying.

faberryman · Aug 27, 2018

jnanian said:
Would $150.00 for exclusive rights be suitable?

The good news is that they didn't use it without asking. That's a step in the right direction.

RattyMouse · Aug 27, 2018

All this talk about photo ops make me look up the image I gave away to that magazine. It turns out that this was 10 years ago this past May when I got my only published photo. I found out that this magazine ceased publication in 2016. I wonder if my photo drove them out of business? That's my son in the photo. The irony was that the cover story article is about homeschooling and my son was being home schooled when I shot the photo. I got a free subscription for the use of my photo. Sadly, they forgot to include a credit in the published magazine. That was a bummer! My son saw this photo once published and said, "looks like I'm going to be famous now". He was 5 or 6 years old. Priceless.

removed account4 · Aug 27, 2018

faberryman said:
The good news is that they didn't use it without asking. That's a step in the right direction.

LOL exactly !
hopefully his mentor has told him what triple damages means

jim10219 · Aug 27, 2018

Congratulations! Whatever you start off with, set it high let them know you're willing to negotiate. In the end, I'd take what you can get. It would look good in a portfolio and might be the start of something more. Unless it's one of your all time best photos.

removed account4 · Aug 27, 2018

jim10219
every photo i make is one of my
all time best photos !
yah i put the bar UP and i am
waiting for a response
i wrote back at like 10am
i mean 150 is like
royalty free stock ..
but somebody who is just
happy to be published will say YES !!!
not me ... i have a feeling tomorrow ..
is GO-time !

Arklatexian · Aug 27, 2018

jnanian said:
I just received an email from well respected
Advertising Agency regarding a photograph
I uploaded on FlickR in last month.

Dear xxx,
I am an intern at XXX, XXX & XXX. We came across your
beautiful photograph "zyx" on FlickR. We are interested in
acquiring excluding usage rights to use your photograph in an advertising campaign
( Billboards in large cities, Direct Mail to our clients and Internet ) for xyz business,
perhaps you have heard of them?

Would $150.00 for exclusive rights be suitable?
We will have "follow up" opportunities in the months to come
where other photography you have made may also be selected.

Please contact me as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
xxx
(xxx) yyy-zzzz

I don't know what the going rate for magazine pictures are, now that everyone with a cell-phone has a "camera". At one time there was a difference in what was paid depending old whether the picture was for a front cover, back cover, inside front cover, etc. In those days $150,00 would have been right for inside somewhere. I think they have a budget for each article as well as for the whole magazine. To all those who think that publishers work with unlimited budgets, haven't you heard people don't read anymore. They sit looking at a stinking computer as I am right now.......Regards!

Berkeley Mike · Aug 28, 2018

jnanian said:
I just received an email from well respected
Advertising Agency regarding a photograph
I uploaded on FlickR in last month.

Dear xxx,
I am an intern at XXX, XXX & XXX. We came across your
beautiful photograph "zyx" on FlickR. We are interested in
acquiring excluding usage rights to use your photograph in an advertising campaign
( Billboards in large cities, Direct Mail to our clients and Internet ) for xyz business,
perhaps you have heard of them?

Would $150.00 for exclusive rights be suitable?
We will have "follow up" opportunities in the months to come
where other photography you have made may also be selected.

Please contact me as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
xxx
(xxx) yyy-zzzz

Intern-speak is clumsy and then tosses out that bane of promises, work for us now and we may have work in the future for you. Were you born yesterday?

So it comes down to whether you want to make $150. You could make it a matter of principle to not give-in to these kinds of low-ball offers. Or just take the money. It isn't as if your protest will ultimately drive up fees. Take the money and move on.

jim10219 · Aug 28, 2018

jnanian said:
jim10219
every photo i make is one of my
all time best photos !
yah i put the bar UP and i am
waiting for a response
i wrote back at like 10am
i mean 150 is like
royalty free stock ..
but somebody who is just
happy to be published will say YES !!!
not me ... i have a feeling tomorrow ..
is GO-time !

Well, you and me are opposites in that respect. Every photo I make is terrible! My best photo is my next one!

I have a degree in Graphic Design and have done a few magazine, mailers, catalogs, business cards, logos, posters, TV commercials, and just about anything else you can think of. Some involved photos I took, but most involved photos the client supplied. How much they pay has more to do with the size of the company wanting the work done than anything else. Many are cheap. Even some larger companies with big budgets won't pay much for artwork. They tend to want to spend their money on printing, distribution, etc.. In fact, I've had a real problem with companies, even medium sized companies, companies with 100+ employees, trying to get me to use stolen photos, and getting angry when I refuse. I've had some ask me to remove the watermarks from stolen photos from a competitor. I also had a medical network try to get me to use stolen X-rays of bones (with the original copyright still on the pictures) when they owned thousands of X-rays of higher quality in their archives they could have used for free! They were just too lazy to dig them out. Hell, I even got fired from a job at an add agency once because I wouldn't steal a screen from the movie "The Hang Over" for a local TV commercial! I tried to sue, but they went under before I could take them to court. They were run by a bunch of morons.

My point is, you never know how much someone is willing to pay until you start negotiating. Sometimes you have to walk away. And sometimes a low paying job opens the door for many more higher paying jobs. But companies love to negotiate, and it's a lot easier to come down in price than convince them to go with a fair price right off the bat.

Berkeley Mike · Aug 28, 2018

The intern has no power to negotiate. It would be like the car salesman who has to go to the Sales Manager with each deal. I guess you have to ask but you are talking about $200 instead of $150, not the hundreds or thousands the image might be worth in you own mind.

pbromaghin · Aug 28, 2018

I doubt jnanian believes any of his images to be worth high thousands. He's not quite the dumbass you might think he is.

Theo Sulphate · Aug 28, 2018

Just last week as I was looking through 20+ year old Shutterbug magazines to throw away, I read an article about negotiations in photography. I won't name the author, who was a professional in commercial photography, and I don't necessarily agree with several of the points he made in the article, but two things he said were "the first person who suggests a price loses" and "when you state a price, you should hear them fall out of their chair". The point being you can always negotiate lower.

AgX · Aug 28, 2018

Past times... I know of publishers in Germany who do not even negotiate, but reduced all their photo-fees and the photographers/stock-agencies had to take that or leave.

faberryman · Aug 28, 2018

You could respond that you are the photographer's intern and he has asked you to tell them that $xxx is the minimum fee the photographer has set for the contemplated use.

Seriously, attach a contract. You always want to be negotiating from your contract. If they are only willing to offer $150, they are clearly not going to spend the money to hire a lawyer to review it, so you'll get your terms. Also, it makes you look professional, which certainly can't hurt

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2018

pbromaghin said:
I doubt jnanian believes any of his images to be worth high thousands. He's not quite the dumbass you might think he is.

thanks !
but its DUMAS
i guess they think i just fell off the turnip truck ...
yes, ALL my work is worth hundreds of thousands

im certainly going to hold out for more than $150 ..
as i said turnip truck not hayseed !

if they want the image ( or images later ) ...
the extreme low-ball negociating tactic ain't gonna work ..
at least with me ... i will keep an eye on my mail and
report what his response is ..

it feels almost like a 529 scam or an employer
on linkedIN who was going tot interview me for
a make believe job ...

DWThomas · Aug 28, 2018

I'm in the "at least they asked" camp! As a retiree who has no delusions about -- or interest in -- making big bucks in photography, I have received occasional requests related to images I have out on PBase. A number have been non-profits or academic situations and I've generally said "OK" for a photo credit. In one case, I was contacted by an astronomer in Germany working on an atlas of great comets. For a higher rez copy of a comet photo -- a shot of Ikeya-Seki I took in 1965(!) -- I have ended up receiving two coffee table size books, one in German and one in English. There's my photo and my name -- hey! Considering I had not monetized it in 50 years, I'm happy.

removedacct1 · Aug 28, 2018

DWThomas said:
I'm in the "at least they asked" camp! As a retiree who has no delusions about -- or interest in -- making big bucks in photography, I have received occasional requests related to images I have out on PBase. A number have been non-profits or academic situations and I've generally said "OK" for a photo credit. In one case, I was contacted by an astronomer in Germany working on an atlas of great comets. For a higher rez copy of a comet photo -- a shot of Ikeya-Seki I took in 1965(!) -- I have ended up receiving two coffee table size books, one in German and one in English. There's my photo and my name -- hey! Considering I had not monetized it in 50 years, I'm happy.

I certainly understand DWT's point of view here, and I have made the same decision myself on several occasions. Its all about context. So I think its important to point out the difference between a request for one time usage by a non-profit, or using it in an educational tome about Astronomy, and this advertising company's request for exclusive rights for a nation-wide billboard and mailing campaign. VERY different use case scenarios, IMO. Someone looking for support imagery for an Astronomy Atlas isn't working with the same kind of $$$ as an ad agency whose sole purpose is to sell someone's product/service in order to make that someone (and the agency) rich. Advertising is one of the most profit-driven industries known to man.

I see these as drastically different contexts. I'm not saying any of this to convince John, because clearly he has a healthy idea of how to value his work. But its important to realize there is an ocean of difference between the professional who understands the potential $ value of his work, and the amateur who is thrilled to simply have one of their photos used for commercial purpose. (Personally, I have never found it flattering in the least to have an entity approach me and say "we LOVE your photo and want to publish it, and we want you to give it to us for free, because the publicity is worth FAR MORE to you than plain old cash!", because that is utter nonsense. Please don't fall for the ruse.)

"We are interested in
acquiring excluding usage rights to use your photograph in an advertising campaign
( Billboards in large cities, Direct Mail to our clients and Internet ) for xyz business"

Context: we have a budget to produce this as billboards across the country, which is a VERY expensive process, and all we are willing to give YOU, the artist, is $150. Think about it.

Helinophoto · Aug 28, 2018

Meh....
Non-commercial entities (mom&pop's, regular folk) can pay normal prices.
But when you talk about a commercial entity, with the write-offs and tax-returns and god knows what they can get back from expenses, they pay commercial prices and that is final in my book.

Heck, just renting the advertising-space is tenfold of what they pay you, even if you move the comma a step to the right and double that figure.

Feel free to do what you want, but commercial entities need to pay the proper amount.

Off-course, they will just keep looking until someone agrees to these terms, that's how it is after the internet, digi-photo and stock-photo ruined the marked.

HUUUUGE opportunity ...

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