HP5+ - what the heck are these stains?

[alkos]

Ian, this is contrary to my 1000 rolls+ developing practice I ALWAYS open the tank after 20-40s and never got any problem due to that. Patience is not my best virtue, OTOH

 

[Ray Rogers]

There are problems associated with exposure of incompletely fixed material to light including, IIRC, the potential formation of colorless, insoluble thiosulfate complexes which may remain after washing to decompose into colored products (stains).

Since the problem is more potential than certain, one may not find any evidence of trouble, but if the science is correct, it would be better to err on the side of saftey, and fix to completion before exposure to actinic light.

OTOH, I do not think the stains seen in the OP are related to to this.

Ray

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, this is contrary to my 1000 rolls+ developing practice I ALWAYS open the tank after 20-40s and never got any problem due to that. Patience is not my best virtue, OTOH

You might just have been unlucky on this occasion, the fix just a bit more exhausted than you thought.

It's worth just being a little more cautious. My gut feeling is it's the fix because many pro-labs used to load their stainless steel reels while still partially wet and it was also common practice to use wet tanks as well without these problems.

Ian

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Anon,

One of the potential attractions of the Kodak T-Max fixer is to reduce fixing time, putting less milage on my Jobo.

Tom

 

[Anon Ymous]

You've got a point then...

 

[Ray Rogers]

My gut feeling is it's the fix because many pro-labs used to load their stainless steel reels while still partially wet and it was also common practice to use wet tanks as well without these problems.

Ian

Hi Ian!

I may have read this thread too fast to have caught your view fully... Can you summarize your idea of how exposure of poorly fixed material may have resulted in the light, drop/flow-like stains we see on the prints? I understand your thought on fixer effect in general and agree, but the stains described here seem to follow a flow pattern.... I would think that the problem you describe would produce a less well defined pattern... or even follow image density rather than what I am seeing as more of a gravity-driven type pattern.

Ray

 

[Ian Grant]

Any agitation follows a flow pattern Ray, and all tanks have some type of struts to support the actual film spiral, once agitation stops, think how an obstacle in a river cause the flow to slow behind it depositing stones & sand then think of a tank just inverted with spent fix thereres a rush past the obstacle but a slower rate behind.

But of course its more random in a dev tank as there's usually some swirling as well, Hey Presto those kind of stains if exposed to light too early.

Just exercising the grey matter, but seems quite logical.

Ian.

 

[Ray Rogers]

:confused:
I just can't see it happening that way...

A few drops of water or other solution - that by gravity (or a sharp rap meant to dislodge bubbles), that were sent a short distance across the surface, still looks like the best guess to me...

But you are right - this is more an excercise in thought than anything else.

Perhaps the OP willl be able to pin-point the trouble by shooting some more film!

Ray

 

[polyglot]

I've had stains like this and they're due to underfixing. In my case (on Acros), they looked a little brown on the negatives and putting the film back in the fix and then wash for another few minutes each fixed (ha) the problem. The film was "clear", but there were still portions that were not as clear as they should have been, due to me keeping that particular batch of fixer too long.

 

[Ray Rogers]

There is one unrelated question... I can't see why the top picture has bar codes on both the bottom and, appearently, to the right of the image (top right corner)... does this film have bar codes between frames?

Ray

 

[Anon Ymous]

No, that's obviously a vertical strip of film. You can also see the perforation (vertical) if you look closely.

 

[erikg]

I agree with Ray. Looking at the shapes of the marks and the rather hard edge that they have they seem to me to look like water spatter. They are lighter so that fits with increased density. Incomplete fix often has a softer edge and often is heavier in the center of the film, with more clearing at the edges. At least going by what I have seen. I work with high school students so I get to see all sorts of results from bad habits!
I bet if you get a hair drier and dry those reels and tanks you won't see this issue again.

 

[Ray Rogers]

No, that's obviously a vertical strip of film. You can also see the perforation (vertical) if you look closely.

That was my first thought... but I couldn't see the vertical preforations on my tiny screen... I have gone back and found them now!

Thanks,

Anon

Unfortunately, I continue to over-analyze...

Is it correct that Alkos has not explicitly stated that these "stains" are visable on the negatives... (or, that two contact prints, say test strips of the same negs, show the same exact pattern)? In other words, have we eliminated the possibility that these stains are only on the paper?

The only relevant comment I can find about the negs is "Moreover, it still looks clear in these areas (no "milky shine" anywhere)" I know there is a language wall, and that I may over-analyze...but one might expect to hear something like "the stain is just darker, not milky."

Alkos, Can you see those stains actually on the negs or just the contacts?

Ray

 

[Pat Erson]

"I've been considering whether to move over to the Kodak T-Max fixer for film processing, to get the dye out of TMY-2"

I've used Kodak fixer (1+4) briefly and went back to Ilford Rapid Fixer in a hurry when I discovered that RF is about twice as powerful as the Kodak stuff. With the same 5l. drum of fixer dil. 1+4 (1 litre of fixer + 4 litres of water) KF goes dead after 32 135 films whereas Ilford RF still does the job after 64 films...

 

[clayne]

Doesn't seem like wet reels to me. Definitely seems like some other form of contamination (including exposure to light).

I've loaded film onto wet stainless reels countless times. Never seen any effects like the OP posted.

 

[Ray Rogers]

Doesn't seem like wet reels to me. Definitely seems like some other form of contamination (including exposure to light).

I've loaded film onto wet stainless reels countless times. Never seen any effects like the OP posted.

Yea.
Contamination is likely. I think we really need an update from Alkos!

Ray