HP5+, Pyrocat, Extreme Minimal Agitation

JamesMorris

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Yes, pyrocat seems to have a lot of great benefits which add up to something more than their parts.

I'd also consider dd-x if it was even remotely affordable in Australia.
 

markbarendt

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I'm open to trying them Ian.

I have WD2D+ on hand that I play with here and there. I tried some Rollo Pyro a while back too and I do have negatives that I like from each of these developers, but they haven't proven any easier to print or better for me than companion shots done with Xtol, D-76, or DD-X.

I've found that with at least WD2D+ and Rollo Pyro, it's also a lot of work to get things right for each film. Steve's description above is a good reinforcement of that thought.

It seems to me that I have to be more careful shooting, developing, and in which films I choose. For example I found Delta 100 actually worked quite nicely for me in WD2D+, I like FP4+ more though and it wasn't any better in the staining developers, wasn't worse either. For faster films though; HP5+, Delta 400, and 3200 I really find DD-X and Xtol are a better fit for me; in both the EI's it allows me to shoot at and in ease of printing.
 
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jstraw

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Ok...a couple of questions:

My Pyrocat MC turns lavender shortly after I mix it. Is this normal?

I'm getting mottled staining. I think this may be from the period of time the emulsion is exposed to air when I drain the developer and add the stop....and maybe due also to inadequate fixing. Thoughts?

I'm about to run another test with a change of process...taking the film from the developer straight to a stop tank with only a couple of seconds exposure to the air.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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This is exactly the problem that I had, with mottled development.

The Pyrocat mixed first as green, and it would turn color after a little while to almost black. I bought a new kit and it mixed green again. But it didn't help my developing problems any. I tried distilled water, which also didn't help. I can't even remember all that I tried anymore. Sorry I'm not of more help.

It could be that one of your solutions are contaminated, or it could be that you're not using enough agitation. I never solved this problem.
 

Ian Grant

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When I mix my Pyrocat HC it initially turns a very light ble/green colour then clears. However if the Metabisulphite has decomposed completely Pyrocat does turn a more noticeable blue/green which doesn't clear and this is an indication that the Pyrocatechin has started to oxidise and it'll stain the negatives often unevenly. It's a bit subjective but a slight colour on mixing isn't an issue but if it's quite noticeable then I'd discard and make fresh Part A.

My first batch was stored in small Polythene bottles and went off very quickly a couple of months as the polythene was low density and allowed oxygen migration through the walls. In decent "High Density" bottles I have Pyrocat HD that's lasted over 2 years (no glycol). The fresher the Metabisulphite the longer these developers last as stock or in a dish/tank during processing.

When I use IT-8 a Pyrocatechin re-developing toner the developer has a remarkably short tray life and once it turns in colour stains the prints patchily.

Ian
 
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jstraw

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I don't make it. I buy it from Formulary. I may have a bad batch. Great.

It doesn't mix green. It mixes clear and turns lavender before I get the film into the soup.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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I hope you can sort it out, jstraw.

When Pyrocat works it's a very nice developer. I suspect that I'm not crafty enough to make sure my chemistry is tip top at all times, so I have to go with commercial off the shelf stuff to have a better chance at consistent negatives.
 

Steve Sherman

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Long long ago early in my Pyrocat HD days I was buying the premixed A & B from the Formulary. A fresh shipment came in and I noticed a similar lavender color rather than the more vailed a Sepia color upon mixing. The results lacked noticeable density , unusesble negs. The Formulary gladly replaced the two solutions. I had already ordered from Artcraft the necessary chemistry in bulk to make Pyrocat HD. I distinctly remember spending. $55.00 on that order. I am only on my second bulk order for Pyrocat chemistry after almost ten years. I cannot imagine another high performance developer so inexpensive. Kudos to Sandy King !!
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Very interesting, Steve. Out of the maybe six or seven kits I got from the Formulary, I never had one that mixed with a close to clear sepia color.

I thought that was normal! Could the fact that bought glycol mixed kits have anything to do with it?
 

Ian Grant

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Thomas Bertilsson said:
Very interesting, Steve. Out of the maybe six or seven kits I got from the Formulary, I never had one that mixed with a close to clear sepia color.

I thought that was normal! Could the fact that bought glycol mixed kits have anything to do with it?
Click to expand...

The Glycol shouldn't make any difference, I made some Part A up at double the normal strength in Glycol (to cut the weight when flying) and it makes up and behaves just the same.

Aside from my first batch and the wrong bottles I've found Pyrocat (without Glycol) keeps well, long past suggested storage times others have given in the past.

Ian
 
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jstraw

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The film I developed looked fine this morning when I hung it to dry. I won't really know anything till I see it on the light table this evening. The previous film looked fine when wet too.
 

Steve Sherman

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Hi, With the bulk Chems I buy, bearing in mind I dissolve the Phenidone in a touch of alcohol as it does not do well going into solution with water. Wouldn't imagine that would change color. Sepia color I am tlaking about happens when the clear A solution is added to the clear B solution the color quickly shifts to a fain sepia color. That actually is a positive indicator that the two chems are in fact preforming properly.

This is Pyrocat HD BTW, cheers, SS
 
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jstraw

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I add the A to the water...then the B to the water. Am I doing it wrong?

Today's film looks fine. I didn't control for the two variables so I don't know if the solution to the problem was the reduced exposure to air before the stop or if it was the increased fixing time. I'll have to find out eventually.
 

Steve Sherman

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Your doing it correctly. My A solution goes in and then I add some Distilled Water, then the proper B and the remaining Distilled Water to bring to correct volume. The instant the B hits the solution the color shifts to a faint sepia color.
 

Shawn Dougherty

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Steve Sherman said:
My A solution goes in and then I add some Distilled Water, then the proper B and the remaining Distilled Water to bring to correct volume. The instant the B hits the solution the color shifts to a faint sepia color.
Click to expand...

I used Pyrocat HD for all my sheet film from 2004 to 2009 and off and on since then. I've mixed my own except for one Glycol based batch I bought from PF. I've never had a problem with the developer and found that it indeed changes from clear to a light sepia when mixing the working solution just as Steve describes.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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I think I must have been unlucky with my purchases from the Formulary, then.

If I find a reason to do so in the future, I might revisit using Pyrocat, but likely mixing it myself instead.

Thanks to all who have shared in this thread.
 

Klainmeister

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Just an FYI, I've been using the stuff B+S makes for 6-7 years now without a single issue. Last a friggen long time too.
 
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jstraw

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I wonder why mine turns lavender before I use it. My fixer also picks up a lavender hue. Do you think it could be my soft water? No...the fixer is mixed with distilled...though the developer and stop that precede it aren't.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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jstraw said:
I wonder why mine turns lavender before I use it. My fixer also picks up a lavender hue. Do you think it could be my soft water? No...the fixer is mixed with distilled...though the developer and stop that precede it aren't.
Click to expand...

Try mixing the developer with distilled water and see what happens.

Although it's safe to assume that Ian tells important facts concerning the discoloration - he knows his chemistry, for sure. It may simply be that some of the developer components have gone bad.
 

Klainmeister

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jstraw said:
What is "B+S?"
Click to expand...

Yes sorry, Bostick and Sullivan. It's not glycol based, but I haven't had any issues with the bottles in a 6 month period. Typically, that's plenty for my needs. For $25 or whatever, it's probably one of the most economical developers out there.
 
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jstraw

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It's a brand new purchase as of about three weeks ago. If it's bad and limping along en route to failure, I hope the vendor will replace it...and from a different lot number.

I'll mix the next batch with distilled water.
 
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jstraw

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Perhaps I was experiencing some sort of contamination from the Patterson plastic measure I was mixing in. The last two batches of Pyrocat-MC were mixed in stainless and didn't turn purple.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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jstraw said:
Perhaps I was experiencing some sort of contamination from the Patterson plastic measure I was mixing in. The last two batches of Pyrocat-MC were mixed in stainless and didn't turn purple.
Click to expand...

Did you use distilled water? Or tap?
 
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