HP5+ problem

devecchi · Sep 24, 2017

Problem with Ilford HP5+ 120, and sometimes after the classical 4'of the pre bath in demineralized water or tap water for development pyrocat hd, I find abundant debris-like strips of cellophane. This is the layer anti alo? I thought it was out of the emulsion but then when I developed everything was regular. I must add that I preferred to use D76 because the previous time after this problem with the Pyrocat negative was very weak. With ilford FP4+, this does not happen. Demineralized water has a PH of 6.7, and then normal. Ilford HP5+ made in China?

Neal · Sep 24, 2017

Dear devecchi,

This is only a guess but it seems as though the area where the paper attaches to the film is giving you problems. Tou might benefit from cutting the film from the paper such that all the glue remains attached to the paper and does not enter into your developing system.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

devecchi · Sep 24, 2017

This is very strange. At this time, the film is dried, and exhibits a strong curvature in the transversal direction, as if missing a layer that makes it more plain. Perhaps removed one layer "hardener" lying on the part emulsion?

Svenedin · Sep 24, 2017

I’ve never encountered what you describe with HP5+ but I never presoak. It sounds very odd indeed. How old is this film?

devecchi · Sep 24, 2017

Due in September 2019. Are years that I do pre-wash without problems.

devecchi · Sep 24, 2017

I think such a production defect. With HP5+ 135 and never had this problem.

Colin Corneau · Sep 24, 2017

Never had anything like this (or any problem) with HP5+ -- Ilford's QC is impeccable.

Not to rehash this old argument but pre-washing is a waste of time and water.

Kawaiithulhu · Sep 24, 2017

Colin Corneau said:
pre-washing is a waste

Let's just stop right there, we'll all be happier!

David Lyga · Sep 24, 2017

I have to echo that sentiment. One rarely uses Kodak ImageLink microfilm, but a presoak with remove ALL the emulsion. In addition Ilford says NOT to presoak. Heed this. - David Lyga

railwayman3 · Sep 24, 2017

I've used HP5+, 120 and 35mm, (and its predecessors back to HP3 !) and never seen anything like this, although FWIW I have never presoaked any film. The Ilford data sheet for HP5+ says "A pre-rinse is not recommended as it can lead to uneven processing."
I've always had a vague understanding that commercial developers generally contain a wetting agent, but, on the occasions when I mix my own developer from raw chemicals, I normally add a tiny drop of photographic wetting agent.

Svenedin · Sep 24, 2017

Even though a pre-soaked is not recommended (I never pre-soak) this seems very strange. I can’t imagine the emulsion would start to fall off after just 4 minutes in water at normal processing temperatures.

MattKing · Sep 24, 2017

David Lyga said:
In addition Ilford says NOT to presoak.

Ilford says slightly different things, in different places.
In days of yore, Simon Galley (formerly of Harman) posted that Ilford/Harman's recommendation respecting pre-rinse flowed from the fact that they saw no benefit from a pre-rinse, therefore thought it was unnecessary, and therefore did not recommend it.
"Not recommended" is different from "should not be done".

devecchi · Sep 24, 2017

Developing film for 40 years ( HP5+ included), but this problem is very strange, strange because it does not occur with other films. Of the two hypotheses, a one: or it is a production problem, or the demineralised water ( I used different brands) sometimes has substances that can give this problem.

railwayman3 · Sep 25, 2017

Svenedin said:
Even though a pre-soaked is not recommended (I never pre-soak) this seems very strange. I can’t imagine the emulsion would start to fall off after just 4 minutes in water at normal processing temperatures.

Could the OP have somehow made an error and used water of too high a temperature ? Unlikely, I know, but I've made some inexplicable mistakes myself at times, in moments of wandering concentration !

Or something in the demineralised water ?

Ian Grant · Sep 25, 2017

devecchi said:
I think such a production defect. With HP5+ 135 and never had this problem.

Most likely a processing or storage issue, I've use a lot of HP5 and FP4, Delta 100/400, and coating defects are extremely rare with Ilford products, I've never seen one at all in 50+ years, they are also extremely well hardened films.

I also use only Pyrocat HD these days (last 12 years) and get superb results with HP5 so the fact that you say the negatives were very weak seems to indicate a processing error or poor storage. Ilford don't recommend a pre-soak. All looks like a mistake somewhere

If you have more film of the same 120 batch send a roll to Ilford/Harman for testing. as you seem to be saying it might be fake !

Ian

Jim70 · Sep 25, 2017

Have you tried contacting Ilford???

devecchi · Sep 25, 2017

have not bothered to Ilford because I see that the problem is not widespread to other people, as in the case of the film TMX Kodak had problems with the paper ( happened to me). The next film I will try to develop it in Pyrocat HD, without pre-washed, and using only tap water. Thank you all for the attention. Sergio

pentaxuser · Sep 25, 2017

If you can think of nothing you did in your process that might have had this drastic effect then I'd certainly contact Ilford and give it details of the film number and describe the effects you found. It may be that based on your description Ilford will ask for the film to be returned for investigation. I am assuming that you know the source of your purchase and it is a genuine film seller. Counterfeiting is not impossible but would seem unlikely. I take it that the film's edges had the correct Ilford markings?

pentaxuser

trendland · Sep 25, 2017

Svenedin said:
Even though a pre-soaked is not recommended (I never pre-soak) this seems very strange. I can’t imagine the emulsion would start to fall off after just 4 minutes in water at normal processing temperatures.

Buy first reading this post of you I just want to ask wy ? Wy should a preasoak
damage the emoulsion.
And if you are right - perhaps a little strange theory there may be some facts I personaly did not know up to now.
But from the logic a stand developer from 1 hour and every washing bath over
10 min. should destroy most films.
But I only missunderstood you post caused from "fast reading".
So you are right I absolute agree with you. With normal workflow it is not possible.
OK wy should this hapern with normal temperature after just 4 minutes?
It can not be caused from wrong manufacturing from my point of view.
I ve seen this only from a couple of films
produced before 1928 and obviously developed to the same TIME.
And I don't know the condition of storage during all the time (WW II)
So lets better ask :How can we damage a film within 4 min. pre soak at its best?
You may give the answer indeed : With temperature.
Well - I would prefer hot water soak at 75 degree celsius first.
Sure the emulsion will quit this.
It has to do with temperature from my point.

with regards

dpurdy · Sep 25, 2017

I ran into a problem with a clients Hp5. I processed it as I normally do with a presoak and kept getting all type of weird textures and crap on the base of the film. I finally tried skipping the presoak and the problem went away. Now I never presoak Ilford films.
Dennis

devecchi · Sep 25, 2017

In my case, the pre-soak was 20° ( Celsius) However, this problem has occurred on two or three occasions only with HP5+ and it is impossible that I have the wrong temperature in all of these occasions.

HP5+ problem

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