HP5+ in E6: An Aerochrome Scam

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

I saw an listing of FPP Aerochrome from an eBayer named bkahn and won the bid. The guy contacted me by email and we arranged for 2 rolls of this through PayPal. Upon receiving the rolls, they were not in the usual FPP Aerochrome container as seen here: https://filmphotographystore.com/products/35mm-infrared-film-fpp-color-ir?variant=30856402317. I stored the films away and waited for a time to test them.

Well, fast forward to last week, I decided to open both canisters and to my surprise they were Ilford Delta 100 and HP5+. I thought perhaps whoever hand-rolled these used empty Ilford canisters so didn't thought too much of it. After shooting the "Aerochrome in HP5+ canister" roll, I sent it to Palm Labs (where they are certified to process Aerochrome: https://www.aerochrome.shop/labs).

I was excited to see the surreal infrared colors on film; however, upon receiving the film my excitement turned 180. What I got was a heavily fogged film that was in fact HP5! What in the actual fuck?!

I have tried to contact the seller but there has been no response. Additionally, eBay and PayPal have not been helpful as the former does not have a phone number for customer service while the latter has told me they are unable to do anything since the transaction was just me sending money over without an agreement on the actual product.

Anyway, I just want to warn anyone here who are curious on trying Aerochrome or color infrared to stay far far far away from this person. This week has not been so great for me (and wow, it's only Wednesday!), so here are what a B&W film look like in E6 processing.

AgX · Jul 21, 2021

YoIaMoNwater said:
...since the transaction was just me sending money over without an agreement on the actual product.

From your report you were not bidding on a "mystery bag", but on certain old-stock film. How then comes PayPal to saying that you just were gambling?

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

AgX said:
From your report you were not bidding on a "mystery bag", but on certain old-stock film. How then comes PayPal to saying that you just were gambling?

Apparently since I sent him the transaction without referencing the the item, then that does not warrant a refund/dispute. I’m gonna try calling again tomorrow and see what happens.

Don_ih · Jul 21, 2021

The guy has 100% feedback, a lot of which was given on listings similar to what you said you bought. If the item was not as described, you can get a refund if not too much time has passed. He's sold two listings of film in taped-up FPP-labeled containers over the last few months - maybe he believed the label and never looked inside?

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

Don Heisz said:
The guy has 100% feedback, a lot of which was given on listings similar to what you said you bought. If the item was not as described, you can get a refund if not too much time has passed. He's sold two listings of film in taped-up FPP-labeled containers over the last few months - maybe he believed the label and never looked inside?

He had one negative review and then his account disappeared from eBay for awhile and when he returned that review was gone. I should’ve seen the red flag then. I did sent him a email asking that exact question, but no response. Weird considering he recently sold something last week.

I was one of reviewers for the FPP Aerochrome; however, I submitted before actually shooting if. Knowing from this experience, I won’t leave feedback until the product is tested.

pentaxuser · Jul 21, 2021

My sympathies. They will be selling bargain phone numbers next on e-Bay that get you all the help you need with the viruses that most of us must have on my PC. I must get these viruses daily as there are always nice people ringing me each day to warn me of this problem. It would be nice if I had a handy phone number in case a virus comes along in the middle of the night

pentaxuser

cramej · Jul 21, 2021

If you were contacted via email and not the eBay message system, then proceeded to send money through PayPal that was also not through eBay invoicing, you were scammed. You have no protection or recourse because all of the controls to prevent this were circumvented.

gone · Jul 21, 2021

eBay can be called. The last time I had to do that a couple of weeks ago I got right through to them. Almost dropped dead at that! Not only that, the person I spoke to knew what they were talking about. Probably should have gone out and put some money on a horse because things were going so well that day. Try 866-540-3229 or 866-540-3229.

Don_ih · Jul 21, 2021

YoIaMoNwater said:
I was one of reviewers for the FPP Aerochrome

If you left feedback, why can't you file for a refund through eBay?

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

pentaxuser said:
My sympathies. They will be selling bargain phone numbers next on e-Bay that get you all the help you need with the viruses that most of us must have on my PC. I must get these viruses daily as there are always nice people ringing me each day to warn me of this problem. It would be nice if I had a handy phone number in case a virus comes along in the middle of the night

pentaxuser

Thanks, I tried looking around and the ones I called just told me to attempt the Help section on their website.

momus said:
eBay can be called. The last time I had to do that a couple of weeks ago I got right through to them. Almost dropped dead at that! Not only that, the person I spoke to knew what they were talking about. Probably should have gone out and put some money on a horse because things were going so well that day. Try 866-540-3229 or 866-540-3229.

Thanks for providing these, I'll give them a call tomorrow. Haha I'm glad everything worked out for you that day, perhaps whatever is left of my luck got transferred to you.

Don Heisz said:
If you left feedback, why can't you file for a refund through eBay?

I tried to do it but they won't allow refund after 30 days, which is ridiculous for things like film since not everyone has the time or want to shoot such an expensive emulsion at the moment. Additionally, I was planning a project so was hesitant on shooting it. I will try call them tomorrow.

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

cramej said:
If you were contacted via email and not the eBay message system, then proceeded to send money through PayPal that was also not through eBay invoicing, you were scammed. You have no protection or recourse because all of the controls to prevent this were circumvented.

Yea that was the second red flag. Stupid me was too desperate and decided on impulse...

MattKing · Jul 21, 2021

If you weren't using the eBay communication system, you may actually have been communicating with (and paying) a third party scammer - someone other than the person with the listing.

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

MattKing said:
If you weren't using the eBay communication system, you may actually have been communicating with (and paying) a third party scammer - someone other than the person with the listing.

He initially sent me message through eBay with his email then persuaded me to continue our conversation by email. If you google his email, his website comes up with the same email address. One thing I noticed is that his eBay icon is from a profile pic from his Instagram page; however, his PayPal profile pic was some random older guy. His PayPal email is also the same as his email and website, so this whole situation has me perplexed.

MattKing · Jul 21, 2021

His email is public, so it would have been easy for a scammer to spoof that email.

Wallendo · Jul 21, 2021

Before blaming a third party, remember that the OP left feedback on the eBay site. To get a link for feedback, eBay must have somehow been notified that the film was sent to him. Unless the third party hijacked the seller's eBay account, eBay would not know that the film was sent and therefore there would be no opportunity for feedback.

Also, if the seller believed that his account had been hacked, why not respond to the buyer and say that.

YoIaMoNwater · Jul 21, 2021

MattKing said:
His email is public, so it would have been easy for a scammer to spoof that email.

Then how would you explain his PayPal activity? You would need to hack the two step verification system which as far as I know, seems pretty difficult.

Wallendo said:
Before blaming a third party, remember that the OP left feedback on the eBay site. To get a link for feedback, eBay must have somehow been notified that the film was sent to him. Unless the third party hijacked the seller's eBay account, eBay would not know that the film was sent and therefore there would be no opportunity for feedback.

Also, if the seller believed that his account had been hacked, why not respond to the buyer and say that.

Exactly. It makes less sense to automatically blame it on the seller's email being "hacked" than the seller itself. Unless the hacker had the opportunity to overtake all his online accounts (email, eBay, Instgram, PayPal, etc), I don't see how it cannot be the original seller.

Craig75 · Jul 21, 2021

YoIaMoNwater said:
Yea that was the second red flag. Stupid me was too desperate and decided on impulse...

yeah you got hustled and i do not think you have any recourse here (i hope i am wrong tho)

you have to keep all messages on ebays platform so they can see them and use the ebay invoice to pay. thats what gives you your protection when things go wrong - once you leave their system then you are on your own.

(i believe)

HP5+ in E6: An Aerochrome Scam

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