HP5 + Ilfosol = Nothing

Gundus · Jul 27, 2008

Hey there,

Never happened to me!

I went to develop my first 2 HP5 negatives and when i finished developing them...there was nothing!! Nor even a tiny image or border...total transperecy!

Problems with the camera? I used Ilfosol s, bought early this year...it was a litle dark...but i guess even if it wasn´t in good condition it would have to show something!

Does anybody know the cause for this? I appreciate

Thank you

Ian Grant · Jul 27, 2008

The old version of Ilfosol is known to collapse, this is why Ilford re-formulated it recently. As you commented about the developer being "a little dark" that's most likely your culprit.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Jul 27, 2008

If there are no edge markings on the film, the developer was bad.

PE

CBG · Jul 27, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
If there are no edge markings on the film, the developer was bad.
PE

Or you fixed the film first by mistake.

C

hka · Jul 27, 2008

That's why I have abandoned Ilfosol for ever...

Trevor Crone · Jul 27, 2008

FWIW I've started putting Ilfosol 3 through its paces. To date I've only put Acros 100 (ISO80) through it at a 1:14 dilution, 5' @ 20*C. I've pleased with the look of the negatives and should print well on grade 2/2.5. Acros 100 negatives from a 6' dev. time look good for Pt/Pd printing or grade 0/1.

I've had this developer for a couple of months and have only just opened it. I'll leave feedback if I notice any deterioration over the coming months.

Gundus · Jul 27, 2008

The way i work doesn´t seem that i fixed before developing...but anything is possible...

Ilfosol S...i guess i will to stay way from it!:rolleyes:

Thank you

Gundus · Jul 27, 2008

And there was no edge mark...there was nothinh at all...completely transparency!

Chazzy · Jul 27, 2008

It's not a bad practice to check developer with a snip of film before using it.

Bob F. · Jul 27, 2008

Gundus you say, "my first 2 HP5 negatives" : is this sheet film or roll film?

If sheet film, there are no edge markings on HP5 so you can't tell anything by the lack thereof so it is possible something went wrong with the exposures. If roll film, the lack of visible edge markings means it looks like either the developer was dead or you accidentally fixed instead of developing and given Ilfosol-S' reported tendency to "sudden-death syndrome", it's likely that was the problem.

The only film developer I know of that I would be happy to use when it has become darker is Rodinal (or Rodinal-type developers). There may be others that are safe when discoloured but I don't know of them.

Good luck, Bob.

Gundus · Jul 27, 2008

It was 120 roll film...and in second tought...it was impossible that i fixed first.

The stop bath and the fixer were already diluted from a previous session..and i put them apart on a "water-bath" and next i diluted the developer and used right away.During the developer process,the stop bath and fixer were kept always apart until needed...

So..i'm pointing on a dead developer...

Just like to know if a dead developer causes...no visible images on the film :confused:

Kevin Caulfield · Jul 27, 2008

Yes, a dead developer will cause no image on the film.

hka · Jul 28, 2008

Need for a real production date on the packages

I bought once a "fresh" (the seller said) bottle of Ilfosol and used it a couple of hours later and what do you think.... nothing nada.
The worsed thing is that there is still no production date on the bottle rather then some cryptic numbers.
It's realy time now to put a real production date on these packages aswel for the developers as for the papers.
We pay a lot of our money for this stuff and the only thing we want is fresh and reliable goods.
Why is this so difficult to realise; Kodak, Ilford and others?????:confused::confused::confused:

Trevor Crone · Jul 28, 2008

Ilfosol S was/is renowned for its 'quick death'. Hopefully with their 'new and improved' (Ilford's quote) Ilfosol 3 it will be more reliable. Still no production date but it does come with a batch number. So hopefully a quick email/phone call to Ilford will give the date of its production.

So far I've very pleased with their new product.

hka · Jul 29, 2008

Trevor Crone said:
Ilfosol S was/is renowned for its 'quick death'. Hopefully with their 'new and improved' (Ilford's quote) Ilfosol 3 it will be more reliable. Still no production date but it does come with a batch number. So hopefully a quick email/phone call to Ilford will give the date of its production.

So far I've very pleased with their new product.

With all respect I don't know what your relation is to Ilford but I can't understand why should I first mail or phone, when I'am already in the shop to buy some, to be informed about the cryptic batch numbers.
Why not putting directly the production date on it.
That's a piece of cake...
If they need examples how to do just let them go into the supermarkets...

Trevor Crone · Jul 29, 2008

hka said:
With all respect I don't know what your relation is to Ilford but I can't understand why should I first mail or phone, when I'am already in the shop to buy some, to be informed about the cryptic batch numbers.
Why not putting directly the production date on it.
That's a piece of cake...
If they need examples how to do just let them go into the supermarkets...

No relationship whatsoever Harry.

You are absolutely right and I don't fully understand why they can't put a production date rather then batch number, but I feel its the best we can hope for at present.

Perhaps Simon Galley can chime in on this.

If its any help Ilford say that a full airtight bottle of concentrate of Ilfosol 3 will keep for 24 months, 4 months in half-full tightly capped bottles.

hka · Jul 30, 2008

Trevor Crone said:
Perhaps Simon Galley can chime in on this.

If its any help Ilford say that a full airtight bottle of concentrate of Ilfosol 3 will keep for 24 months, 4 months in half-full tightly capped bottles.

Sure, that will help but is only usefull when you know the date of production. Because you don't know how long it's already on the shelf?
About some years ago I asked Simon Galley about this and he told us to come back on it.
No sign or withe smoke untill today.

I think it's a great marketing usp to put it as one of the first manufacters on the bottles and packages.
But I think there must be an other (secret) reasing why they won't do it. I haven't discovered it yet.
Why can they print an out-of-date marking on the filmpackages.
Same factory, same company.
Why o why?? :confused: :confused:

Simon R Galley · Jul 30, 2008

Firstly, dead developer is very, very rare, you may get an age effect, but from a sealed developer most unusual ( but, as always,not impossible ). Please send me the batch number and I will have a look at it, we have no outstanding QC's on ANY ILFORD Chemical product at this time. You should also return the film and remaining chemistry to us and we will check it out.

Why do we not put dates on chemistry ? ( no one does ) very good ( honest ) commercial reason, they traditionally keep very well indeed, if you date them consumers take the freshest off the shelf and leave the old ones, the retailers then want us to take them back, or will not take them into stock in the first place unless they have maximum dated stock. We would then have to make smaller batches, ship more often and costs rise, and we do work as hard as we can to keep our prices as low as possible.

Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Trevor Crone · Jul 30, 2008

Simon R Galley said:
Why do we not put dates on chemistry ? ( no one does ) very good ( honest ) commercial reason, they traditionally keep very well indeed, if you date them consumers take the freshest off the shelf and leave the old ones, the retailers then want us to take them back, or will not take them into stock in the first place unless they have maximum dated stock. We would then have to make smaller batches, ship more often and costs rise, and we do work as hard as we can to keep our prices as low as possible.

Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

I can appreciate that Simon. However if I indeed telephoned or emailed technical services with the batch number whould I be told the production date?

Regards,
Trevor.

Arvee · Jul 30, 2008

Trevor Crone said:
I can appreciate that Simon. However if I indeed telephoned or emailed technical services with the batch number whould I be told the production date?

Regards,
Trevor.

PhotoFormulary does this upon request.

-Fred

Simon R Galley · Jul 31, 2008

Yes we would

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

P C Headland · Jul 31, 2008

Bob F. said:
.....

The only film developer I know of that I would be happy to use when it has become darker is Rodinal (or Rodinal-type developers). There may be others that are safe when discoloured but I don't know of them.

Good luck, Bob.

PC-TEA goes darker too, and like Rodinal, continues to work fine.

fschifano · Jul 31, 2008

Look, there's an easy way to avoid all these problems. Just use dry chemistry and add your own water. The dry stuff doesn't start to age until it is mixed, and it's more economical to boot. Yeah, yeah, I know all the arguments about how difficult it is to make stuff up from dry powder and how the "dust problem" is toxic and all that other stuff. The dust problem can be controlled. Yes, it's a bit more trouble to mix up a gallon or so of stock solution once in a while, but you can't have everything.

hka · Aug 1, 2008

Simon R Galley said:
Why do we not put dates on chemistry ? ( no one does ) very good ( honest ) commercial reason, they traditionally keep very well indeed, if you date them consumers take the freshest off the shelf and leave the old ones,

Most retailers are smart guys and leave the freshest behind the counter untill the oldest are sold out!

the retailers then want us to take them back, or will not take them into stock in the first place unless they have maximum dated stock. We would then have to make smaller batches, ship more often and costs rise, and we do work as hard as we can to keep our prices as low as possible.

Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Dear Simon,
As I understand now, you are fully aware of the fact that you are taking certain risks with this.
The interest of the manufacturer and the shopkeepers is more important than that of the users.
And that in this way we put our carefully made pictures into a "dead" developer. With all the consequences of that. Who is paying that???
Is that what you mean by saying "Ilford is passionate about B&W"?

Robert Budding · Aug 1, 2008

That's a bit harsh, harry. Would you be willing to pay even more for chemistry because more would be returned to the manufacturer? I think not, as you've already complained about price, too.

I use many Ilford products and I've never had a problem. But I date developer myself when I open it. I dump it when it gets too old.

hka said:
Most retailers are smart guys and leave the freshest behind the counter untill the oldest are sold out!

Dear Simon,
As I understand now, you are fully aware of the fact that you are taking certain risks with this.
The interest of the manufacturer and the shopkeepers is more important than that of the users.
And that in this way we put our carefully made pictures into a "dead" developer. With all the consequences of that. Who is paying that???
Is that what you mean by saying "Ilford is passionate about B&W"?

HP5 + Ilfosol = Nothing

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