HP Combi-Plan T 4x5 Sheet Film Developing

seawolf66 · May 7, 2007

Fisrt of if this is in the wrong forum [Please move] Now is any one use-ing this equipment to do 4x5 begatives?[HP Combi-Plan T 4x5 Sheet Film Developing Tank System] what I like I can use it in daylite to process : any problems found use-ing it: Thanks folks for any infomation:

jstraw · May 7, 2007

I use mine for virtually all of my 4x5 and I have NO problems with it.

jmdavis · May 7, 2007

I use the combi as well but with Eugene Singer's alternative dip and dunk method described on the large format site. Technically, I use 3 combi's one for dev, 1 for stop and 1 for fix. I have never used them as a daylight tank.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

I should say, that having two of them, I use one for dev and one for fix. I use a couple of Yankee tanks for pre-soak and a water-bath stop. But for dev and fix, I do use them as daylight tanks but they're prefilled and I don't fill and empty with the film in them. I prefill, then dunk and cap them.

vanspaendonck · May 7, 2007

As far as I know (but I am not familiar with Jobo and other rotating drum equipment) there are three ways to develop 4x5 sheets:
1. Tray in total darkness;
2. Honeywell Nikor stainless steel tanks, which take six sheets but are expensive (about $ 150 on the auction site);
3. HP Combiplan. Yes, I know that there are critical comments on this tank all over the web. Yes, they take too much time to fill and to drain and they leak most of the time, but I use them all the time for 4x5 and I am reasonably happy with these. By now I have acquired five tanks and developed the following ritual:
1. Use one or two dry tanks with the lids on to put the sheets in before I start processing.
2. Use three open tanks for developer, stop bath and fixer respectively;
3. Develop in total darkness untill the sheets are in the fixer.
As the tank uses 1 litre of developer to cover the sheets, you can develop at least three batches in the same chemistry, increasing the developing time with 10% for each additional batch.
As with most things in photography, It pays off to develop a standard routine (same camera, same film, same developer, same enlarger, etc.) to get good and predictable results. Only after you have established a rock solid base you could start to experiment. Has worked fine for me.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

Ok, here's how I do semi-stand in HP Combi Plan tanks:

1. Set up tempering bath, including the presoak and water-stop Yankee tanks
2. Measure out 1 litre of deveoper into second Combi tank and place in tempering bath
3. Measure out 1 litre of fixer into stainless graduate and place in tempering bath
4. Load rack and cap them in a dry tank
5. In darkness, uncap dry tank and dip film into presoak tank for 5 minute presoak with agitation.
6. Drain and dunk in developer, cap and begin initial agitation (30 seconds).
7. Tap tank to dislodge airbells and place in tempering bath.
8. Turn on lights.
9. Transfer fixer to empty Combi and place in tempering bath.
10. At 12.5 minutes, three inversions.
11. At 25 minutes, three inversions.
12. At 37.5 minutes, three inversions.
13. At 49 minutes, turn off lights and uncap the developer tank.
14. At 50 minutes, drain the film and begin two minute, agitated water stop.
15. Immerse film in fixer, cap and agitate for 30 seconds.
16. Turn on lights and agitate 10 seconds of every 30 for remainder of 4 minute fixing time.
17. Uncap tank, dump fixer, uncap bottom drain hole and attach wash hose.
18. Wash
19. Drain and one minute in surfactant
20. Dry

PatTrent · May 7, 2007

seawolf66 said:
Now is any one use-ing this equipment to do 4x5 begatives?[HP Combi-Plan T 4x5 Sheet Film Developing Tank System] what I like I can use it in daylite to process : any problems found use-ing it:

I never had any problems at all using it as a regular daylight/inversion tank. I did find, however, that the manufacturer's tip sheet was correct in recommending that only 4 sheets (rather than 6) be developed per batch if the photos are important.

percepts · May 7, 2007

I have used combi plan and it works quite well but it is expensive and spares, especially in the UK, are ridiculously expensive. From time to time due to inversions, a sheet of film will pop out of the rack and ruin the the next sheet of film. This can also be caused by the retention clip slipping which happens when it becomes worn. A 2c plastic replacement cost £12.00 in the UK.

So I bought Jobo 2509N which takes upto 6 sheets of 4x5 and can be used for daylight processing by hand using inversion or you can buy the cheap roller and roll it by hand or it will work on a jobo processor. And its cheaper than the HP Combiplan. And it doesn't leak or need parts replacing so often. And it fills and empties a lot quicker.

Nuff said

nicolai · May 7, 2007

I hate this thing. I wrote a review and a follow-up on the Combi-Plan (fair warning, both contain foul language), and some first impressions of the Jobo 2500 system.

Quick summaries:

Combi-Plan: absolutely awful as a daylight tank, probably excellent as a dip and dunk tank in a darkroom.

Jobo 2500: haven't tried the 4x5 reels yet, but if they're as good as the 135/120/220 reels and the tank, it's excellent.

PHOTOTONE · May 7, 2007

The most common method (in professional labs) for the development of sheet film is on stainless steel hangers in "deep" tanks. Personally, while I have a Combi-Plan and over the years have used it quite successfully for both color and b/w processing, I usually have enough sheets of film that I need much more capacity. for 4x5 I use the stainless steel hangers that take 4 sheets of 4x5 each. I have ten of these, so I can develop 40 sheets of 4x5 at once, which works quite well for me. I use 3.5 gallon Cescolite tanks. One for Developer, one for stop, and one for fix. I use replenishment with the developer, so it stays in the tank with the lid on all the time. I have a 3.5 gallon stainless steel tank that I use for a wash tank (put hose in tank, turn on water). I remove film from the hangers and put into a print tray of Photo-flo before hanging up to dry.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

Ok, I got curious and just bought this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160114717194

Renato Tonelli · May 7, 2007

I have been using the combi tank for many years and I am happy with it. I use two tanks: the first holds the water bath and the second the developer. I turn the lights out when I need to switch tanks. I pull out the film holder, put it in the next pre-filled tank, close the lid, turn the lights back on, tap and invert; I then prepare for the next step and so on.
I will be trying out the Jobo ATL1500 in the very near future (been asking for and getting lots of advice on apug and photo.net). I intend to use both systems as required by circumstances.

KEK · May 7, 2007

I used mine for the first time this weekend and like it alot. I really like having the lights on.

Before i used it i searched out some tips and J. Brunner seems to have the best.

1.To seal the lid press around the edges like you would with a tupperware lid. I didn't have any leaks.

2.To drain and fill quicker loosen the top plug. I was getting a drain and fill in the 15 sec. range.

The only problem i encountered was getting 6 sheets loaded and that will come with practice.

percepts · May 7, 2007

p.s.

The only downside of the jobo tank for 4x5 daylight processing is that it uses more chemistry than the combi plan.

1500cc verses 1000cc to 1300cc depending on how much you fill it. Filling the combi plan full reduces frequency of film popping out of rail guides.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

percepts said:
p.s.

The only downside of the jobo tank for 4x5 daylight processing is that it uses more chemistry than the combi plan.

1500cc verses 1000cc to 1300cc depending on how much you fill it. Filling the combi plan full reduces frequency of film popping out of rail guides.

Can the Jobo really do 12 sheets? If so, 1500cc is an improvement. I have a feeling 12 is back to back in a holder for 6.

fschifano · May 7, 2007

When I first started using the CombiPlan tank, film sheets would pop out of the grooves and sometimes ruin the adjoining sheet. I learned how to correctly load the thing and don't have this problem any more. I like the tank. It allows me to work in room light and that sure beats shuffling sheets of film through a tray in the dark. I like using dilute developers with long development times, so the little extra time for filling and draining is not very significant. Put the cover on correctly, screw down the fill and drain plugs well and you'll have no significant leaks either.

Jim Fitzgerald · May 7, 2007

I love using stainless steel tanks for 4x5 and 8x10. They are great fo Pyrocat HD and minimal agitation. I've had no issues with uneven development. I do it all in the dark! I can even use DBI this way. I like the fact that this system gives me scratch free Efke 25 and 100 negs.

Jim

percepts · May 7, 2007

jstraw said:
Can the Jobo really do 12 sheets? If so, 1500cc is an improvement. I have a feeling 12 is back to back in a holder for 6.

My Jobo tank only takes 1 4x5 reel. The picture of what you bought looks like a tank for two 4x5 reels which may or may not be suitable for inversion. Certainly not if you only have one reel in it. The more fluid sloshing around in there the more likely it is to push film out of slots.

I have never tried 12 sheets in my jobo. The reason is because I have tried doing 12 sheets in my combi plan and the sheets always stuck together very badly. The only way to stop that would be to presoak them before inserting the film which negates the point of a daylight system. i.e. you would have to do it in darkroom and not changing bag which I use. I just won't risk destroying negs again by trying it. The other problem with 12 sheets in one holder is that antihalation does not wash out during dev and fix and can be a bugger to wash out afterwards so pay no attention to the "I can do 12 sheets in combi plan or single jobo reel" claim because it WILL catch you out.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

percepts said:
My Jobo tank only takes 1 4x5 reel. The picture of what you bought looks like a tank for two 4x5 reels which may or may not be suitable for inversion. Certainly not if you only have one reel in it. The more fluid sloshing around in there the more likely it is to push film out of slots.

I have never tried 12 sheets in my jobo. The reason is because I have tried doing 12 sheets in my combi plan and the sheets always stuck together very badly. The only way to stop that would be to presoak them before inserting the film which negates the point of a daylight system. i.e. you would have to do it in darkroom and not changing bag which I use. I just won't risk destroying negs again by trying it. The other problem with 12 sheets in one holder is that antihalation does not wash out during dev and fix and can be a bugger to wash out afterwards so pay no attention to the "I can do 12 sheets in combi plan or single jobo reel" claim because it WILL catch you out.

With semi-stand, agitation really isn't agitation...it's about moving spent developer off the emulsion and replacing it with unspent. So I can probably use the roll film reels to take up space and hold the 4x5 reel in place. If I do my inversions gently I should be fine.

percepts · May 7, 2007

Sounds like it should work OK. I was going to say that the 2553 tank you bought will take at least 2500cc if you fill it. But obviously a lot less for only one reel.

jstraw · May 7, 2007

percepts said:
Sounds like it should work OK. I was going to say that the 2553 tank you bought will take at least 2500cc if you fill it. But obviously a lot less for only one reel.

Another way to go would be to find the largest diameter PVC pipe that will fit in the Jobo and cut a length of it, cap both ends and use it as a spacer that would hold the reel in place and obviate the need for so much solution.

nicolai · May 8, 2007

Remember that the Jobo 2500 is invertible, but it was designed to be used as a rotary tank with either their motorized system or a roller base ($24.50 from B&H). If you do that, you'll use significantly less chemistry.

jstraw, you positively stole that thing, congrats! Please let us know how the 4x5 reels are, I'm dying for a replacement for my Combi-Plan.

jstraw · May 8, 2007

nicolai said:
Remember that the Jobo 2500 is invertible, but it was designed to be used as a rotary tank with either their motorized system or a roller base ($24.50 from B&H). If you do that, you'll use significantly less chemistry.

jstraw, you positively stole that thing, congrats! Please let us know how the 4x5 reels are, I'm dying for a replacement for my Combi-Plan.

Thanks, but the roller base would be incompatible with semi-stand.

I may not have stolen it. The guy charged me $15 to ship it from California. :rolleyes:

Mahler_one · May 8, 2007

As others have stated with eloquence, the Jobo alternatives for 4x5 film developing ( either the 200 series tanks with the CPE, or the "easier" but more costly expert drums on the more expensive CPP or CPA ) are consistent, reliable, easy, and use small amounts of chemicals. Moreover, as most realize, after loading the reels the lights are turned on, and after adding the chemicals you can read your favorite book while the tank is turning. At the buzzer, empty the tank, proceed with the next chemical step, etc. Naturally, the temperature is held constant. Unfortunately, Jobo has stopped making their rotary processors, but the company continues to furnish replacement parts and repair(s) through Omega-Satter. A steady stream of rotary processors appears on that infamous auction site, but the prices appear to be inching upwards.

Edwin

percepts · May 8, 2007

Mahler_one said:
Unfortunately, Jobo has stopped making their rotary processors, but the company continues to furnish replacement parts and repair(s) through Omega-Satter.
Edwin

NOT TRUE!

Jobo have stopped making processors for mini labs which were the high end ATL processors.

The CPE and CPP are stil in production and the smallest ATL (ATL1500) is also due for shipment very soon (as soon as it passes EU regulations. Some problem to do with soldered circuit boards I hear).

N.B. The ATL1500 does NOT accept expert drums.

HP Combi-Plan T 4x5 Sheet Film Developing

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