How will aging affect Kodak BW400CN?

Since one of the common problems associated with old color film is color shift, what will the effect be on chromogenic B&W films like Kodak BW400CN? I have been shooting my stock, stored at room temperature, quite a bit lately and haven't noticed much change. I did just acquire some BW400CN in 120, supposedly cold-stored, but expired in 2006.

Just wondering what to expect...

hi wolfeye

i got some that was at a photo shop that went out of business
i was excited to use it, and did !
the film was all sent to a lab ( 2-3 rolls of it ) and it was all dead.
it might have been because of storage issues or age, i am not sure..

i hope you have better luck with yours than i had with mine !
john

I was given two old rolls of this film kept somewhere on the shelf at home. It had Olympic sponsorship label.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e...CTQRslsctMy-EmRSn0LBaGkhiOw=w1680-h1050-rw-no
I think, expiry was around 2003. I developed it in 2014-2015 at home C-41 kit. The grain was huge.
Two examples (scans).

Wolfeye said:

Since one of the common problems associated with old color film is color shift, what will the effect be on chromogenic B&W films like Kodak BW400CN? I have been shooting my stock, stored at room temperature, quite a bit lately and haven't noticed much change. I did just acquire some BW400CN in 120, supposedly cold-stored, but expired in 2006.

Just wondering what to expect...

Click to expand...

The colour shift with 'old' colour film is caused by differential ageing of the 3 emulsions that are at the heart of the film's 'tripack' construction. The monochrome, chromogenic film isn't like that - so there won't be an age-related colour shift. The film itself will show the normal reduction in sensitivity and contrast and increased fog that is characteristic of any silver halide film. Compensate by giving more exposure, or even, much more exposure.

I've been shooting out my stock of BW400CN. It's hit or miss roll to roll. I just shoot them at box speed and hope it develops OK.

"It's hit or miss roll to roll." - That's odd. Do you develop it yourself? Camera problem or 'lab' putting the film through a non-chromogenic process by mistake?

Neil Grant said:

"It's hit or miss roll to roll." - That's odd. Do you develop it yourself? Camera problem or 'lab' putting the film through a non-chromogenic process by mistake?

Click to expand...

Nah, it's my rolls. I have a bunch of undated rolls out of box. I don't know the age so it's hit or miss. I have found that shooting at box is safe as they seem to age pretty well. Yes I develop myself.

I was under the impression that the film dyes from the c-41 process were grainless, unless the film is developed as regular B&W film

cowanw said:

I was under the impression that the film dyes from the c-41 process were grainless, unless the film is developed as regular B&W film

Click to expand...

There should be no silver grains after processing - just dye 'clouds'. With sufficient exposure (or more) these will merge to give a smooth image. With less than ideal exposure this doesn't happen - resulting in a noisy image reminisent of silver 'grains'

Well, I shot a roll. Didn't turn out too bad. Here's the best of the first roll:

Some very expired stuff. I have no clue how old this roll was when I shot it.

Storage makes all the difference. I love (loved) BW400CN and bought a whack of it, some 120 and lots of 35mm, when they were discontinued. I've kept the rolls at comfortable room temperature in a dark drawer, and haven't bothered freezing it. I shoot a roll here and there, and have gotten consistently good results.

My experience with it has been that it didn't age well. It lost speed and got grainy fairly fast, even when fridge stored. I understand the convenience factor of being able to soup b/w in C-41, but I'd actually rather do b/w in b/w chemistry as you give up one of the major controls you have over b/w images when running the film through C-41.

To address the second half of the film's life, this week I have been working with T400CN and XP2 Super that was developed in the 2002-2003 timeframe. The T400CN looks no different than I remember it but it would be harder to tell with the orange base. The XP2 Super, sadly, has not aged well. The FbF has gone through the roof and the film base has turned a brilliant, dense violet-purple. When these first came back from the lab, they had just a slight purple tint to a otherwise gray-ish film base. The base is now dense enough that the resulting density difference between Dmax and FbF is very small and results in lots of noise in a scan. I don't currently have an enlarger set up so I'm not sure what they're like to print with that heavy purple fog. Of course, the TX and PX I developed myself around the same time looks identical today as when it first dried, so I guess this is what I get for exploring the convenience (at the time) or C-41 process monochrome films