How well do automatic flashes work on a TLR?

bvy · Sep 5, 2015

I've been shopping for a small automatic flash for my Yashica Mat camera, and, as luck would have it, while cleaning some things out this weekend, I found a Vivitar 252 flash that somebody had given me a while back. If I understand correctly, I should just be able to dial up the automatic setting, set the aperture, and as long as my subject is within the flash's shooting range, I just fire and forget it. I've been using manual flash's prior to this, and doing the guide number/distance/aperture math in my head with each shot. Do these live up to the promise?

(By the way, I'm not opposed to recommendations for something better, but for now this is what I have so I'd like to play around with it.)

ronnies · Sep 5, 2015

That's how it should work.

Ronnie

Sirius Glass · Sep 5, 2015

It will work well as you described it.

Enjoy.

BrianShaw · Sep 5, 2015

A thyristor controlled flash works great on a TLR. and a lot quicker than doing the manual flash math.

Sirius Glass · Sep 5, 2015

BrianShaw said:
A thyristor controlled flash works great on a TLR. and a lot quicker than doing the manual flash math.

And usually more accurate. It works even better bouncing the flash off the wall or ceiling, producing a more even softer light.

John Koehrer · Sep 5, 2015

The 252 is compact & works OK. Thyristor units recycle much more quickly.
As you know more range = bigger & heavier but here are some similar in size to the 252
for not a lot of bucks. Something like the Sunpak auto 322 or Vivitar or.............

bvy · Sep 5, 2015

So suppose I'm working outdoors with 100 speed film. I want to use the flash as a weak fill light, and I want it two stops less than ambient. Shouldn't I be able to set the dial on the flash to 400 and work with the aperture indicated (adjusting the shutter speed to ambient). Will this work, or am I missing something?

wiltw · Sep 5, 2015

<sigh> Thyristors have little to do directly with flash exposure automation! Thyristor is an energy conserving device which enables faster recycle time whenever all the stored power in the capacitor does not need to be sent to the flashtube. Before thyrsitors, flash units were always associated to a fixed flash recycle time.

'Photosensors' measure light in Auto flash mode, then when the flash photosensor senses 'enough' light, a signal is sent to the thyristor to divert the remaining charge back into the storage capacitor, bypassing the flash tube.

Auto flash like the 252 or Metz potato masher flash units can be fairly dependable for correct exposure. It is subject to the same errors of exposure for ambient-only auto exposure, caused by subject/scene reflectivity-induced errors.

MattKing · Sep 5, 2015

bvy said:
So suppose I'm working outdoors with 100 speed film. I want to use the flash as a weak fill light, and I want it two stops less than ambient. Shouldn't I be able to set the dial on the flash to 400 and work with the aperture indicated (adjusting the shutter speed to ambient). Will this work, or am I missing something?

That is where I would start. You may find, however, that the flash/ambient balance might be better at slightly different settings. I used to use a one stop (rather than two stop) fill with colour print film when I used to photograph weddings, but that was in different times, with different flashes, and of course it is to a great extent a matter of taste.

waileong · Sep 6, 2015

They work as well as they do on any other cameras.

mklw1954 · Sep 7, 2015

Since an autoflash is independent of the camera, it work as it does on other cameras. The Vivitar 252 does not have a Sufficient Light Indicator, unlike the Vivitar 283 or 285, which is nice to have to check that the flash setting is good. These other models also have bounce capability and cost around $35 to $50 in excellent condition.

For fill flash you use the flash in manual mode (see the Vivitar manual) and set the camera for the metered exposure ( the flash synchs at any shutter speed). Then set the flash ISO to a higher value than your film (anywhere from 1 to 2 stops, depending on how much fill you want).

BrianShaw · Sep 7, 2015

One issue to consider is flash coverage. I know Vivitar 285 covers MF but not sure if flashes with smaller strobe tube or reflector.

Flash meter is very handy to verify the flash's calculator, especially if there is no "sufficient flash" indicator.

Sirius Glass · Sep 7, 2015

Most automatic flashes should cover the normal TLR lenses. The wider angle lenses such as the 55mm or the 65mm lenses might not have full direct coverage, but using the automatic flash as a bounce flash should remedy the coverage issues.

John Koehrer · Sep 7, 2015

Since it's a TLR, consider a side bracket if you're going to use a larger flash like a 283. One of those
hanging off the side of the camera and it wouldn't need a hard smack to take the flash and the shoe off.
One other consideration is if it's mounted on the side of the camera, a 283 will only let the flash bounce to your left.
Something like a Sunpak 322 allow either.

MattKing · Sep 7, 2015

A Metz 60 CT series flash works really, really well for this.

And it gives you a really good choice of apertures!

ronnies · Sep 8, 2015

BrianShaw said:
One issue to consider is flash coverage. I know Vivitar 285 covers MF but not sure if flashes with smaller strobe tube or reflector.

Flash meter is very handy to verify the flash's calculator, especially if there is no "sufficient flash" indicator.

Flashes will cover a 'field of view' so whether the camera is 35mm, 120 or Large Format won't matter.

Ronnie

BrianShaw · Sep 8, 2015

ronnies said:
Flashes will cover a 'field of view' so whether the camera is 35mm, 120 or Large Format won't matter.

Ronnie

Yes, of course; Good point, Ronnie. I was, apparently, too terse in my comment. Let me try again.

A Vivitar 285 has sufficient coverage for a "normal" 80mm (or so) lens on a MF TLR. I know this from experience (as I also know it will cover a "normal" lens for LF). The Vivitar 252 has a similar angle of coverage (approx. 60 degrees) so it should work fine. At the time of earlier post I did not know the angle-of-coverage spec for the 252.

bvy · Sep 10, 2015

I think I need something a bit more automatic -- even if it means a modern flash. I'd like to be able to set the film speed and aperture, and let the flash do the rest. Any recommendations?

Sirius Glass · Sep 10, 2015

bvy said:
I think I need something a bit more automatic -- even if it means a modern flash. I'd like to be able to set the film speed and aperture, and let the flash do the rest. Any recommendations?

Any modern automatic strobe will do that for you. Some will even allow you to do it with bounce flash. The automatic flashes will cover 35mm and MF normal lenses and almost all but the widest of their wide angle lenses.

John Koehrer · Sep 10, 2015

vivitar 283/285.

Advantage to the 283 is physical size and very minimal weight advantage.

The advantage to the 285 is, it comes with the variable power feature. One other difference would be the zoom head that
will give a greater range(at the tele setting)

Power is the same on both units @ 110 for ISO 100 film.

Personally I like the 283 for the compactness.

BrianShaw · Sep 10, 2015

bvy said:
I think I need something a bit more automatic -- even if it means a modern flash. I'd like to be able to set the film speed and aperture, and let the flash do the rest. Any recommendations?

What led to this conclusion? If you said you think you need more lighting power I'd better understand your needs

The 283/285 has 5 auto settings. I think your 252 has 3. 283/285 puts out more light than 252. The could be significant differences but the basic auto operation should be similar or same

For auto flash there is only so many options. The calculator lets you set the ASA of the film and you select the appropriate flash setting based on distance. Each flash setting will indicate the aperture to set on the camera. That's all there is to do

BrianShaw · Sep 10, 2015

I use 285 BTW.

bvy · Sep 10, 2015

BrianShaw said:
What led to this conclusion? If you said you think you need more lighting power I'd better understand your needs

The 283/285 has 5 auto settings. I think your 252 has 3. 283/285 puts out more light than 252. The could be significant differences but the basic auto operation should be similar or same

For auto flash there is only so many options. The calculator lets you set the ASA of the film and you select the appropriate flash setting based on distance. Each flash setting will indicate the aperture to set on the camera. That's all there is to do

The 285 might work. I was shooting this weekend, and found myself in a situation where I was having to (or wanting to) switch between full flash and fill flash quite quickly (chasing kids around). It got a little confusing. The 285 with its manual settings might be just the ticket.

BrianShaw · Sep 10, 2015

Ahh, now I understand. Suggest not using fast moving subjects!!

How well do automatic flashes work on a TLR?

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How well do automatic flashes work on a TLR?

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