How to use Kodak Ektar self-timer?

petersandford · Apr 13, 2017

Hi guys

I got my first LF camera today and it has a Kodak Ektar 127mm f/4.7 lens and i was trying to figure out how to use the self-timer but everything i tried just fails, so any advice would be great

shutterfinger · Apr 13, 2017

What shutter is it in?
These instructions show how to operate varrious shutters used on Graflex cameras, the same shutters were used on all makes of 4x5 cameras. Some shutters had their nameplate changed to the camera makers name.
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_11.html
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_12.html
Some shutters do not have self timers. Self timers fail quicker than the speed delay mechanism.

petersandford · Apr 13, 2017

Thank you Shutterfinger, this is the lens

shutterfinger · Apr 13, 2017

Flash Supermatic shutters do not have a self timmer, see page 12 of the first link in post 2 for shutter operation.
There were self timmers that attached to the cable release socket back in the day, they occasionally show up on ebay.

petersandford · Apr 13, 2017

Thank you again Shutterfinger you've helped me a lot I've been search for awhile on a manual for the lens and was only coming across people having shutter issues. Atleast now I can stop trying to get a non-existing timer to work lol.

Dan Fromm · Apr 13, 2017

PMFJI. Peter, you may have been confused by the synchronizer cocking lever. It is just clockwise of the press focus button, which in turn is at ~ 6 o'clock below the red 1 second mark. If you fire the flash without cocking the synchronizer, you'll get "X" class flash synchronization. The flash will be triggered when the shutter blades are wide open. If you want to use an "F" class flashbulb (wants to be fired 5 ms before the shutter is completely open), set the synchronizer control lever to F and cock the synchronizer as well as the shutter before taking the picture. For an "M" class bulb (wants to be fired 20 ms before the shutter is completely open) set it to M. In your picture it is set to F.

petersandford · Apr 13, 2017

Thank you Dan, that is what I'm getting myself confused over. Thank you for the detailed explanation

Well managed to save a little bit of money thanks to shutterfingers link to the manual, after reading the part about the cable release socket, I thought i'd try my Nikon AR-7 release cable and the bigger end fits into the socket and fires the shutter

shutterfinger · Apr 13, 2017

According to Kodak's date coding Camerosity, http://resources.kodak.com/support/pdf/en/manuals/slideProj/DecodingTheCamerosityCode.pdf , your lens was made in 1949.
Dan, the Flash Supermatic has a 10 K ohm resistor that isolates the flash contact to prevent accidental firing and mechanical lockout that prevents the flash contact form working unless the resistor has been bypassed.
Once bypassed it operates as you state.

When the shutter is tripped with the flash delay set the spring loaded contact lever closes the left and right Bi post leads firing the flash.
When the flash delay is not set, the spring loaded contact does not mate and the blade controller lug contacting the left Bi post contact strip reads 10, 000 ohms between the Bi post pins.
Bypassing the resistor with a piece of wire or replacing it with a piece of wire connects the right Bi post pin to the shutter case and the the blade controller lug connects the left Bi post pin to shutter case when the shutter blades reach full open firing the flash.

Face plate and speed ring removed.

Dan Fromm · Apr 14, 2017

Charles, did you mean to say that the shutter has to be diassembled, the resistor bypassed, and the shutter reassembled before it can be used with flash?

I ask because the bible, 10th edition, describes how to use it with flash and mentions none of this.

shutterfinger · Apr 14, 2017

What is the bibble? What year was it published?
Post 8 edited.
A Flash Supermatic has to have the flash delay set to fire a flash of any type.
A Supermatic X has no delay and will fire a flash only when the shutter blades reach full open.
A Supermatic has no flash sync terminals, a flash cannot be connected to it.

Dan Fromm · Apr 14, 2017

Bible? Graphic Graflex Photography. 10th edition, 1954.

The OP's shutter is a Flash Supermatic. When the flash delay is not cocked -- it should always be set to M or F -- the shutter will trigger a flash when completely open.

Jim Noel · Apr 14, 2017

petersandford said:
Hi guys

I got my first LF camera today and it has a Kodak Ektar 127mm f/4.7 lens and i was trying to figure out how to use the self-timer but everything i tried just fails, so any advice would be great

If it is in a Supermatic shutter the advice from my repairman is "Never Use the Self Timer"

shutterfinger · Apr 14, 2017

REPEAT, a Flash Supermatic will not fire a flash unless the delay is set without a modification.
Left Bipost pin connects to the insulated from case at the side attach screw and forms a contact then continues on to the full open end of the shutter blade controller lug slot.
Right Bipost pin terminates at the side connector insulated from the case and the Left Bipost lead with a 10,000 ohm resistor to shutter case.

There is a slight chance Kodak made a production change in the shutters design. If it is as you say then it would fire a flash bulb when full open causing photographers that used flash bulbs in the day a lot of problems.

Your BIBLE is WRONG. It was written by humans and printed by humans. Humans make mistakes.

I have serviced a dozen or so Flash Supermatics.

A is spring loaded and is blocked from contacting B by the delay setting at the not set position. When the delay setting is set A presses B against C creating a closed circuit that fires the flash. With the 10,000 resistor relpaced by a 0 ohm piece of wire the right bipost pin is connected to the shutter case and then when the shutter blades fully open the left bipost pin is connected to the shutter case by the shutter blade controller lug closing the circuit therefore firing the flash.

Try a 1946 or 1947 copy of Graphic Graflex Photography and see what it says about a Flash Supermatic shutter operation.

Dan Fromm · Apr 14, 2017

Charles, please see pages 5 and 6 of the Pacemaker user manual that can be downloaded from http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/graphicmanuals.html.

I beseech you, think it possible that you may be mistaken.

shutterfinger · Apr 14, 2017

and Kodak never mis stated specifications and all users of their products took their word and never tested anything.
if its in type it has to be absolutely correct.
From this instruction manual

this section

Dan Fromm · Apr 14, 2017

That's nice, Charles. I have that manual buried somewhere. Please refresh my failing memory. Does it say anything about electronic flash on p. 23?

Starting in post #8 above you started an irrelevant discussion of the Flash Supermatic's internal parts. And then you claimed that Flash Supermatics won't synch with electronic flash. You should be ashamed that you haven't looked at the Graflex (not Kodak, as you mistakenly believe) manual I directed you to.

Here's what it says:

Flash Synchronization with Flash Supermatic: Connect the cord from the shutter contact posts to SHUTTER (series) outlet in the battery case. To set, pull pull adjustment control button up to unlock, or loosen screw, if the shutter has this type of adjustment. Set synchronizer adjustment according to type of lamp being used. For synchronization with electronic units not used with a relay, cock and release shutter in the normal way. [emphasis added] Do not pull down on synchro cocking lever. Trip by pressing Body Release. Do not attempt to use the button on the battery case. The Flash Supermatic is not intended to be solenoid operated.

shutterfinger · Apr 15, 2017

Dan Fromm said:
Starting in post #8 above you started an irrelevant discussion of the Flash Supermatic's internal parts.

The discussion verifies the shutter will not fire a flash without the delay being set. You continually claim it will based on misprinted information.

Dan Fromm said:
And then you claimed that Flash Supermatics won't synch with electronic flash.

I never claimed a Flash Supermatic would not sync with an electronic flash. YUou continually read into the post things that are not there based on your erroneous misinformation that GRAFLEX printed.
You should be ashamed of your continual badgering me and for mis informing the original poster with the incorrect printed information you believe to be absolute fact.

A Flash Supermatic will not fire any flash unless the delay is set, it will fire any flash with a 5 millisecond delay if F is selected and the delay is set, it will fire any flash with a 20 millisecond delay if the M position is selected and the delay set.

Go procure an unaltered Flash Supermatic shutter or two and try it yourself with any flash you have. You will find that the 1954 Graphic Graflex Photography is wrong as are the Graflex publications from that era and later. Whoever compiled the articles simply copied the operation of the Supermatic X and it was never proof read by an engineer or technician. There are technical errors throughout Graflex service manuals and publications starting in the mid 1950's.

You owe me and the original poster an appoligy.

Dan Fromm · Apr 15, 2017

Charles, I'm sorry but I can't agree with you. I owe no one an apology.

I just dug out my two Flash Supermatics, Paramount bipost-to-PC cord, a little Vivitar electronic flash and batteries for it. Both shutters fired the flash when the blades were fully open and with the synchronizer uncocked. That's what Graflex says they should do.

shutterfinger · Apr 15, 2017

Not all Flash Supermatics do, most do not.

Dan Fromm · Apr 15, 2017

That's nice. I wonder how the OP's Flash Supermatic operates.

shutterfinger · Apr 15, 2017

Dan, if you own an ohm meter take a reading from the right bipost pin to the shutter case. 0 ohms, the shutter has been modified. Neither pin low resistance (10 ohms or less) to shutter case then the mechanics were changed, ie a factory redesign.

How to use Kodak Ektar self-timer?

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