how to treat dried out wood in old cameras

spoolman · Aug 24, 2015

I'm in the beginnings of restoring a number of old large format folding and box cameras. Once I remove the old leather coverings the wood underneath is very dry and has begun or is close to splitting. Is there a commercially available product or solution that I can use to restore the moisture content in these cameras?. Most if not all wood in these cameras is mahogany.

Doug

trythis · Aug 24, 2015

I use natural tung oil on furniture I make. It takes forever (a couple weeks) to dry with several coats. Add a little paint thinner (10%) for speed. You can leave glasses on it with no water stains. This stuff is not the stuff in metal cans at Home Depot etc. I get it from wood craft supply. It is just tung oil, no solvents.

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Rick A · Aug 24, 2015

You can add Japan Dryer to the tung oil to speed up curing.

StephenT · Aug 24, 2015

Lemon Oil applications to nourish the wood, tung oil to preserve it has worked for me. You have to let the lemon oil (actually contains a petroleum distillate) dry completely before you apply the tung oil.

bdial · Aug 24, 2015

Nothing can restore the moisture content, as that varies with humidity. Unless it's completely encased in some polymer finish it will gain and loose moisture to stay in equilibrium with the surrounding air.

Since the wood moves slightly with changing humidity the cracking generally occurs because of stresses in the wood resisting that movement. This might be caused by metal brackets or some sort of cross-grain interaction between two wooden pieces. For example where the width of one piece is immovably fastened along the length of another.
Wood moves a log along its width, but very little along the length.

You also want both sides covered in finish, for example if you are down to bare wood on the side that had the leather and the other side has some sort of lacquer or shellac finish, the bare side will gain and loose moisture faster than the other, and you may get cracking or cupping. The solution there is to finish the bare wood with a finish similar to what's on the other side

gzinsel · Aug 24, 2015

The topic is too broad! we can spend years debating fine woodworking and its application, in regards to improving/"bring back" , ill-treated wood cameras. There really should be a woodworking forum with stickies, etc. . . so with specificity answers can be given. With all due respect to the person who sent the OP, its kinda like asking "whats the best developer?" The topic is huge and one answer maybe great for one set of circumstances, but horrible for the next "John". Now i am not affirming or denying the quality of insights by those before me.

jeffreythree · Aug 25, 2015

An easy one is picking up some Watco Rejuvenating Oil at your local big box hardware store and following the directions on the back. I have used it on quite a number of old wooden items. It really is a broad and opinionated topic with a lot of ways to arrive at the same result.

paul ron · Aug 25, 2015

watco danish oil, tung oil or even thinned varnish withh help strengthen n rejuvinate the wood since they will soak into the wood grain itself n solidify.

finish coats can be applied over all of these oils once they are dried as long as you stick to oil based products.

spoolman · Aug 25, 2015

The reason I asked the question the way I did WAS to get as many answers and options as possible. This is a topic on which I have no knowledge of and I was simply trying to tap into the vast information resource that APUG is.

I realize that the "experts" are annoyed at the broadness of both the topic and question, but how are novices like myself going to learn about different topics that encompass the various aspects of Analogue photography, including but not restricted to, the restoration and preservation of those cameras which were part of Analogue photography's history.

To those of you who responded with useful information,I am in your debt.

Thank you..

Doug

shutterfinger · Aug 25, 2015

Mahogany was chosen for cameras as it is light weight and dimensionally stable. I agree with the others that cracks are due to factors other than moisture. I would inject wood glue into the cracks and cover or finish when dry. Mahogany is soft wood so sand it carefully.
I have serviced many Mahogany case cameras covered in XXX Moroccan leather and very few have had any separation at the joints or cracks in the body.

Nodda Duma · Aug 25, 2015

My preference is boiled linseed oil.

4season · Aug 26, 2015

Off the top of my head, I know of one thing for strengthening old wood, and it's definitely not designed to "restore moisture":

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/maintenance-repair/minwax-high-performance-wood-hardener

I recall it having roughly the viscosity of alcohol and really is designed to soak into the wood. Minwax sells a companion high-strength wood filler but as far as I could see, it was simply rebranded Bondo auto body filler.

paul ron · Aug 26, 2015

4season said:
Off the top of my head, I know of one thing for strengthening old wood, and it's definitely not designed to "restore moisture":

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/maintenance-repair/minwax-high-performance-wood-hardener

I recall it having roughly the viscosity of alcohol and really is designed to soak into the wood. Minwax sells a companion high-strength wood filler but as far as I could see, it was simply rebranded Bondo auto body filler.

now this stuff sounds great. never heard of it... gunna look for it next trip to the paint shop.

bdial · Aug 26, 2015

There are turning blanks made for making pens and other doodads that are made from half-rotted wood ("spalted" Maple, for example) that use plastic resin forced into the fibers under pressure. The structure of this stuff is basically the plastic.

Thin Cyanoacrylate (think super-glue) glue works on a smaller scale to consolidate small ares that might be rotted or otherwise weakened. Let it soak into the wood, and give it a spray of accelerator.

Small cracks can be repaired sometimes with this method if it can be clamped closed. If it can't be closed, a slurry of sanding dust from the same or similar wood can be mixed up with some of the glue and pressed into the crack to fill it. (wear gloves!!). A slow-setting CA might be best for this.
A well equipped hobby shop or wood working shop will have the appropriate CA glues. Products like Super-Glue have thickeners and won't combine with the wood fibers. The advantage of making your own filler is that the color will be near perfect without resorting to stains or other colorants.

The neat thing about CA glues is that the piece is ready almost immediately for whatever else you need to do. It's also partially reversible with de-bonder if screw something up, or someone else needs to repair the repair in 100 years.

Also, regarding finishes, note that if you use Watco, or tung oil or similar products for finishing, pay close attention to the label directions concerning handling any rags used to apply and buff it. If you wad them up and throw them in a corner, or a trash can, there is a very real and substantial danger of the rags spontaneously combusting. The organic oils can make considerable heat if they oxidize in a closed space.
Rags should be spread out on a non-combustable surface to thoroughly dry before discarding.

AlanC · Aug 27, 2015

Spoolman.
Bdial has responded twice to your question. I don't know who he is but he is giving you excellent advice.

Alan

Ian Grant · Aug 27, 2015

I use Titebond for repairing Wood/Brass cameras when I can, I do use Super Glue or a two part Acrylic with an activator but not on visible areas where the wood is finished with French polish.

With some of the Thornton Pickard shutters I repair the casings are badly damaged, often because they've been used incorrectly, I'll use Super Glue as a wood hardener on the parts I've glued back together to prevent further cracking/splitting.

Ian

shutterfinger · Aug 27, 2015

I conversed with Spoolman via private message about this topic which may explain why he has not responded further. It went something like this.
Mahogany was chosen for cameras due to its light weight and dimensional stability. I agree with the other posts that cracks are caused by forces other than moisture loss. For repairing cracks or separated joints I use Elmer's Carpenters Wood glue which is water base. For hard to reach places I dilute the wood glue and inject it into the crack, split, or separated joint with an ink cartridge refill syringe and needle. I clamp or tape the repair until the glue has cured. For gaps or voids that need filling I use saw or sanding dust mixed with just enough wood glue to make a thick paste and press it into the area needing the repair.
I repair Graflex SLR's and Graphic cameras which are made of Mahogany covered in Moroccan Leather from 1898 to 1946 and Naugahyde from 1947 to 1973. The covering was most likely attached with Hyde glue. There is no evidence that any wood sealer was used on the bare wood before applying the glue but sanding sealer will not hurt.
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The Titebond glue Ian references is good glue also. Graflex included the covering thickness into the camera design so if removing the covering and finishing the bare wood all controls and plates must be shimmed the thickness of the covering to fit and work properly, your make of camera may be the same.

Ian Grant · Aug 28, 2015

When it comes to leather/leatherette (Naughahyde) covered cameras the wood is often much poorer grade, on some Speed/Crown Graphics it's more like box wood. I can confirm the wood was unsealed and also the covering attached with hyde glue.

Titebond isn't that common here in the UK, a friend who makes banjos uses it, but there are different types so more specifically I use Titebond II Premium Wood glue. But there's Titebond Original and Titebond III Ultimate as well as Titebond Hyde Glue available.

Ian

Nodda Duma · Aug 28, 2015

Op if the wood will be covered with leatherette when complete, could you replace the old wood with new pieces cut to size?

spoolman · Aug 29, 2015

Hello Nodda: I was considering that method as an option but some of the cracks are small enough that replacing the affected wood with new would cause other problems. I always use the axiom "don't poke the bear if it isn't necessary". What I will probably do is use shutterfinger's suggestion and mix up a paste using Elmer's Carpenter's glue and sawdust that is leftover from cutting the same type of wood for other projects.

Doug

spoolman · Aug 29, 2015

Alanc: I have read the information that shutterfinger has posted and I thank him for it. I always archive any and all replies and suggestions that I receive from the various experts here on APUG for future reference. Unfortunately, some of the materials that are mentioned as a remedy for whatever problem I have are not available here in Canada such as Minwax High Performance Wood Hardener. I called Minwax Customer Support This Friday past (August 28 2015) looking for this product and none of the retail suppliers suggested by Minwax carry the product and in fact it is not available here in Canada.

Doug

Ian Grant · Aug 29, 2015

spoolman said:
Hello Nodda: I was considering that method as an option but some of the cracks are small enough that replacing the affected wood with new would cause other problems. I always use the axiom "don't poke the bear if it isn't necessary". What I will probably do is use shutterfinger's suggestion and mix up a paste using Elmer's Carpenter's glue and sawdust that is leftover from cutting the same type of wood for other projects.

Doug

My wife can't understand the little pots of wood & sawdust I keep. The sawdust is to fill small areas the wood bits where larger.

Ian

AlanC · Aug 30, 2015

Doug,
Actually it was Bdial who I suggested was giving you good advice. I only mentioned it because I thought some of the other advice you were getting, about using linseed oil and Danish oil was, shall we say, rather off the mark. These oils won't glue wood cracks together, and will actually inhibit any wood glue you subsequently use, from sticking properly. These oils offer valid methods for finishing wood, but you had said that you were going to glue the leather back on, and oiling the wood first could prevent your leather glue from working properly.
On the subject of filling cracks with wood glue mixed with sawdust, this works ok on a cosmetic level. But wood glues such as PVA (white glue) and Aliphatic resin (yellow glue, like Titebond Original and no.2) don't work very well with an open crack. If you have to fill a gap you will get a stronger bond with an epoxy resin adhesive such as Araldite. This may not look brilliant on an open piece of wood. But in your case it will be covered with leather.

Alan

spoolman · Aug 30, 2015

Thanks Alanc for your contribution to my continuing education on this subject. Regarding Linseed and Danish Oil. I was looking for a way to retard or reverse the effects of dried out wood on these cameras and I was asking for suggestions on which materials would : 1). Work at all or 2). Of the ones that would stop or slow down the process of wood drying out. Of those, I have more research on linseed oil and may use that to try and slow down the drying out process. I realize that this condition, in most cases, cannot be reversed and I was going to apply the linseed oil in a very thin coat and allow a significant amount of time for it to infuse itself into the wood before I applied the replacement covering over it.

It would solve all of my problems if I could obtain the Minwax High Performance Wood Hardener mentioned by a previous responder but as I noted in a previous post, some products such as the aforementioned Minwax product, are either not available here in Canada or the Manufacturer requires such a high minimum purchase amount that it would not be practical, from a profit standpoint, to order and stock it.

Dan Fromm · Aug 30, 2015

Doug, have you searched hard? I ask because minwax has a Canadian site www.minwax.ca. They probably have Canadian dealers. A quick search found a few Canadian forums (xxx.ca) in which Canadians discussed using the stuff. You might ask them where they got it.

how to treat dried out wood in old cameras

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