How to start for a replenisher?

olk

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Hello,
I'd like to use an replenisher for W665 instead of lengthen the dev times after some rolles.
But I don't know how to start to create an replenisher. I assume that the working solution of WD665 could be a starting point ...
Any recommendations?
 
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Sirius Glass

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I cannot comment on WD665, but XTOL uses stock XTOL as replenisher.
 

Rudeofus

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If you use a developer, you typically change its pH, use up some of its development agents and build up some bromide. A replenisher can bring pH back up to where it should be, it can add the missing amount of development agent, but I am not sure how you would deal with the extra bromide. If you look at XTol, it uses Phenidone instead of Metol and is therefore less sensitive to bromide buildup, and still the replenished XTol setup is said to yield different results from fresh stock. You can compensate the bromide buildup by raising pH a bit more, by adding more development agents than what is actually lost, or by adding a strong solvent like DTOD in small amounts just to compensate for the bromide. Oh, and it's not at all clear from the onset, whether you need to replenish more Metol or more o-PPD, and whether you can find an affordable source for o-PPD if you can't make that replenisher off W665 concentrate/powder.

My initial approach would be to replace/add about 100ml developer per roll, then measure and restore original developer pH. Use original dev time and check, whether your developer is still too inactive after this. The results should be somewhere in the ball park, so don't do this for critical stuff, but you should get somewhat useful negs anyway, so no reason for endless test strips. If you think, that your replenished developer is too slow, add tiny amounts (increments of 100mg/l per roll) of DTOD to the replenished developer until its activity matched the original thing.

If the results suit you, then you have something like a replenished W665. If the results don't suit you, then Fotohuis may have been correct in stating "don't replenish W665". You'd have to experiment ...
 

MattKing

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Historically, the special purpose separate replenishers had less bromide in them than a steady state, working strength developer. As a result, when one removed some used developer and then added replenisher one ended up with a working strength solution that has lest bromide in it - ready for when further use adds some more.
In the case of self-replenishing developers like X-Tol, where the developer is its own replenisher, maintenance of bromide levels is accomplished by higher volume replenishment. With X-Tol, one removes/discards ~70ml of used developer for each roll developed. That removes a significant amount of bromide - much more than the much smaller amounts discarded with special purpose separate replenishers. As an example, when D-76 replenisher was used, between 23 - 29 ml of used working solution was removed/discarded. For colour films, the volume of replenishment per roll is even smaller.
 

Corn_Zhou

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I can't comment on the W665 case but I have been using JayDefehr's Halcyon which is a PPD-ascorbate developer for quite some time. What I have noticed is that bromide builds up quickly but the level remains stable after 3-4 uses. There will be some muddy precipitate in the replenished develoepr but it does not seem to affect development so I left it alone. The replenisher needs to be stronger in alkali and developing agents to compensate for what is consumed during development. Ideally you should start with a lot more developer than you usually need, like 1.5 to 2 liters and based on that, each time you use the developer, pour out what you need, add in the replenisher that matched the replenishing rate (100mL per roll in my case) and after development, pour back the spent developer to top the whole thing off and discard what's left. You have to compare each run to determine the replenish rate.
 

Don_ih

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The Manual of Modern Photography is on Internet Archive - here. It contains the formula for W665:



I'm not sure if there's a replenishment formula, but I don't think simply pouring more in will work to combat the bromide buildup, nor will adding kodalk or some other alkaline - which I think would change the nature of the developer. I'm sure someone here would be able to point you in the right direction. But I think I'd just use it as specified.
 

Corn_Zhou

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The W665 formula was closely related to D25. So adding metaborate like DK25R would do the trick I guess.
DK-25R
Water 50C 700ml
Metol 10g
Sodium sulphite 100g
Sodium metaborate 20g
Water to make 1 Ltr

W665-R (Possible)
Water 50C 700ml
Metol *16g
OPD *16g
Sodium sulphite *90g
Sodium metaborate 20g
Water to make 1 Ltr
 

Don_ih

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adding metaborate like DK25R would do the trick

Undoubtedly, it would work - as in, it would keep the developer active. It might be a bit tricky to use it as a replenisher and keep the developer's characteristics consistent. DK25 has only metol as a developing agent. Is there is any superadditivity to metol+opd? But it would be a starting point for experimentation.
 
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OP

olk

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thank you all - I'll take the rout via DK25R. As a starting point I replace 50ml after each 120er role.

I think that OPD isn't superadditiv to metaol - AFAIK metol is the developer while OPD only dissolves the silver grains.
 
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