How to set up a public darkroom?

I'm sure this is on here somewhere but I can't find it and I'm angry and want to fight back somehow? How my anger started: I went to a 4H leaders meeting tonight and found out that they had removed black and white photos from the 4H fair registration. I'm not sure that they removed all black and white or the took, developed, and printed yourself class. Either way. Grrr.... Jane entered 2 of her B&W in the general b&w and easily won best of class over all the d*****l c**p, so either way it is frustrating. Who pushed for the change of course was a member of a competing club who has money to throw at a problem. I've heard that it was said that you can't even buy black and white film and d*****l is better anyway and no one shoots with film anymore. I work nights and can't go to the meetings that decide these things. I'm sure it was a frustration that their child's expensive dslr didn't outshine my child's 1980's nikon. Jane also has some skill in the darkroom and has a good eye for composition witch works no matter what you shoot with, so I'm sure she'll outshine him with her holga this year but anyway, I digress.
I have talked to so many people about photography lately that love to shoot film but do not even know what is available and have no access to a darkroom. They have full slr setups and even some medium format equipment but some don't even know what film is still available. I've been looking around my small community within 15 miles of Billings and have found several appropriate places to set up a small shop and darkroom. What would I need to start out? I'm thinking, to start, a couple of enlargers, sinks, some trays and a few supplies for sale. I'd need a freezer/refrigeration for paper and film also. To start out would it need to be much more than a home darkroom? I'm just curious? I'd have to check out the local chemical laws and see how much that would cost. How much is charged for time in a public darkroom? What is provided? I've just been charging .50 for each session in the darkroom for 4H (with me supplying all chems and paper) but really have no idea what is the actual charge. I have just started my journey into film and have been blessed with my own darkroom so I don't even know what it would cost to run? It just frustrates me that people who love photography have been changed into people who have to resort to point and shoot d*****l cameras when they have the knowledge and desire to do more.
I don't have a lot of extra income. I do make a decent living.
Being a nurse does make my job stable although frustrating! I want to set up my ability to make a living doing what I love in the next several years and what I'm doing now isn't it! I also love painting, and all sorts of arts and crafts. I've set up a business name with the state for selling my stuff so I could use that. I'd probably have to get a city business licence. Hmmmm, Okay, I've had a few glasses of wine since I started typing this tyrant so I'm better now!
Anyway. What would it take to set up a public darkroom? What are the average charges for such and what is expected?
Just wondering?

Oh, I probably put this in the wrong place. Anger then drunkenness stopped me from finding the correct place to place my tirade!

Two places I know that are well equipped in my area are Toronto Image Works, which charges $9.00 per hour for darkroom rental, and Gallery 44, which charges $6.00 per hour. Both of these include use of enlarger, easels (up to 20x24), archival print washer, sinks, dry mount press and such things. Keep in mind this is a major metropolitan area with some competition left.

In my estimation, even with careful buying of used equipment in good service, it might take years to break even, especially if you have to construct, wire, and plumb a place. Best then to set up proper for your own usage in your basement or garage, then rent it out to any and all. Even then, you'll probably have to offer lessons as a value-add to break even.

However, it sounds like you could sell film & paper & chems -- be a local stocking point as it were -- and that could help -- if you think there is sufficient demand.

Keep the faith, no matter what.

D.

Hey Lori,

Don't give up on the dream; I have often thought of doing the same back in AU, but don't think there is much call for it, so haven't pursued.

However, I would give anything to have access to one here in BKK!!! - Almost 12 months without a B&W process and print session fix. Seems they love to sell all the paper and chemicals required (for a song!), but access to actually do any of it is extremely limited. I'm looking at trying to get my hands on a Paterson tank and reel to do my 620 films, and that alone is an interesting venture in itself.

Wish you all the best, and as David said, if you can do it all from home - save you $$$$ and be able to spend more time at home with the family as well.

N

Thanks! Yeah! I was just frustrated! I do think it would be a profitable situation if handled right with time. All businesses take years to get to a profitable situation. I was just thinking, I already set up my home darkroom for under $1000. Maybe! But paying rent would make it a hard situation! I'll have to keep thinking about this. Maybe I'll just start out here at home and work on up! I'll have to check zoning here. I'm just a block away from businesses so maybe!

Lori, I know how frustrated you are from firsthand experience. Our local 4H has stopped the annual summer two week art camp. I have spent the last three years working with the kids shooting single use cameras, this year I was going to offer a B&W class including darkroom. The person in charge dropped the art camp this year. Her explanation is she got promoted and is now in charge of three people, and she didn't have time to put anything into motion to have the camp this year. I guess delegating duties never entered her pea-brain. I have a ton of supplies, and no program to use them now. I bought a pile of P&S cameras, film, and picked tons of paper and chems, out of my own pocket.The school sign-up sheets only have cooking, and baby-sitting cert. available this summer. I've had as many as thirty kids in the past and now, zero kids have any opportunity to learn any art (let alone photography). RANT, RANT, Expletive deleted RANT!!

Good luck, and God bless you for wanting to better your community, and helping the kids. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Sad to hear Rick - any chance you can get on board for the next camp?
Sounds like you had it all worked out before someone with little foresight pulled the rug from under you.

Good luck, Lori, and I'm sure you will sort something out. Please can somebody explain what a "4H" is, as that doesn't mean anything here (in Australia)?

A kind of agricultural and camping group for kids. And Lori... I hear your frustration. I think kids in 40H clubs should learn the darkroom if they want, and it should be made available. Start small, offer instruction in your darkroom. With any luck, you can find some like minded people, and as a group organize some kind of public darkroom facility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-H

The sad thing these days is that D.O.P. seems to rule. Contests and camera groups.
Pat

Where I live I've never met anyone into analog photography. Quite a shame there aren't any workshops or courses given around here,if they are here I haven't found them yet. I would love to take part in one.

ozphoto said:

Sad to hear Rick - any chance you can get on board for the next camp?
Sounds like you had it all worked out before someone with little foresight pulled the rug from under you.

Click to expand...

These aren't real 'camps' in the strictest sense, but summer programs put on to give kids something constructive to occupy their time, and help working parents with a scheduled activity so they dont worry about what the kids are up to while they are at the job. I dont know if there will be a next year, thats up to the director, and she dropped the ball for this year. I(and others) didn't understand why she didn't at least offer the usual programs for the summer, she reduced the offerings drastically, most of which are staffed by adult volunteers such as me. There isn't a science program either, as was in the past, its not just art that was cut. To quote the director, she is too busy directing her staff of three people, she didn't have time to concern herself with putting any programs together for this year. This is heartbreaking, not for me, but a sad thing for the kids who look forward to these classes every summer.

hi lori

instead of taking all this upon yourself
why don't you and a the few people you already spoke with
pool your money together and start a photo cooperative.
that way you know you will make rent each month.

the hardest thing to do is start a place, and then realize
you charged too little per hour, and then not have enough for rent + utilities.

and if you want donations find someone with legaleeze experience who will help
you become a 501c3 ( non-profit ) so people can donate $ and equipment to your cause.

good luck!

john

Lori - good luck with your venture. I was a 4-H kid, learned how to sew, basic car maintenance, and was a candystriper for a few years (although in many places 4-H still means raising a calf or something similar.) Anyway, although I never got to learn photography (it was on the books but had no one to teach it) I learned a lot of things in volunteer teacher's kitchens, basements, and garages. I'm sure that if you set something up on your property and were willing to guide people through the initial stages, that maybe it could lead to something bigger and better. Good luck.

Hi Lori,

I applaud you for taking this initiative, I remember back in the 60s my Dad coming to my High School to build a darkroom for the school. Having a place to work really helps to foster a photographic community.

One thing to consider is leaving space to display some of the work that folks create in your darkroom.

Ok, now the negative part. In todays litigious world it is critical that you get liability insurance for your little undertaking. People will be using dangerous chemicals in a space you provide, you need to make sure you protect yourself from their stupidity. Even your best friend may sue you if they get hurt, it is just a sad fact of life. However if you find a good agent your costs should be minimal and can be lowered even more by having a release form that you make everyone sign. ( The form itself is not enough, you need an insurance company to back you so it is their lawyer going to court for you ).

Best of luck,
Harry

I really like the idea of a co-op. I may have to look into that. Rick, how frustrating for you and the kids who enjoy the summer camps. I've done sort of the same thing. I've bought quite a few slr setups for the kids to use. Only a few are interested but I also have the main photography leader (I'm the co-leader) who doesn't want to ever hold meetings. Grrr.

Lori, why dont you run an ad to start up a co-op or at least to find people in your area that would like to start up a club. When you get people together you can present your ideas for a public DR or maybe run it as a cooperative for members, everybody kicks in for gear or maybe someone has enough room to donate space in exchange for privileges. One thing for certain,you will have to write a business plan and a proposal. You never know, some may only want services, and be willing to pay to have the processing done for them, may be a way to keep finances up. The fees for use can only be established after research shows actual costs for rent and utilities and such, do not forget liability insurance as well as general contents insurance.

Lori:

I haven't seen much activity from her recently here on APUG, but BWKate runs a darkroom co-op in Victoria, BC and might have some suggestions for you. Try PM'ing her here on APUG. You might mention, as well that she is missed here .

Lori, where I work, there is a 'student and staff' darkroom. To use the darkroom, each person provides their own film and paper. It's $30.00 per semester and 'unlimited' use of the darkroom but anyone can be eliminated at any time for intentional damage of the room or waste of materials without reimbursemusement of their money. Of course, that means each person needs access to the room too. At the school I attend, there is 'open lab' but you have to be taking a photo class to be able to use it. Either way, $30.00 per semester is not a bad deal to pay for the chemical use. If you use that as a base number, you could figure about $8 or $10 dollars a month and the hours would be whatever you make them based on your schedule. That's a pretty good deal actually. You may need to adjust your prices if people go through the chemicals fast though. Buying bulk chemistry can bring the cost down and you might be able to get an 'educational' discount since you will be providing services for people to learn film development and printing.

I have thought about 'renting' my home darkroom out to other students based on my schedule but as yet have not done so. One of the things I have thought about is that if I provide chemistry that they don't want to use; say, a specific developer type: do they still have to pay the same if they are providing their own developer? I would say "yes" because the rent needs to be paid, the electric is used, clean up needs to be done and it is a service you are providing albeit willingly.

You could also set up 'classes' for developing and printing and give one rate to those that take a class from you and a different rate for those that just want to use the darkroom. If you are on hand when they are developing and printing, then they can reference you when they run into problems. The cost they pay is paying for that service as well.

If you have something like a dry mount press for them to use, they need instruction on that as well. They should provide their own mat board but you may be able to make arrangements with someone that cuts mats to give your membership a deal of some kind as well.

Those are my thoughts on it. Good luck and let us know how this works out.