How to sell prints?

Many of you sell prints online... what is your experience, where is the money, where is the beef? How do you promote yourself? I am not a professional, I am located in Europe, and I sell many of my photos to friends and neighbours, so I guess I can make the world happy with my art and sell some prints to foreigners from time to time.

PS: what type of prints do you sell? I use a hybrid workflow consisting of a good scanner and a large Epson printer. What kind of physical material do people or collectors ask for?

cmo said:

I use a hybrid workflow consisting of a good scanner and a large Epson printer.

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If I were you, I'd run for cover and hide . The Analogiban will hunt you down!

Seriously, though, there has been a lot of discussion of this, and it seems to me that this is a very tough way to make any money. I have had a website up for 3 years, and promoted it with other artists' sites, arts organizations, etc., handed out cards at art shows, etc., and never had anyone buy a print from me that had not seen one at a show.

Maybe someone else out there has had better experiences.

I believe that it has, as with any sort of sales, mostly to do with marketing. If you put your website up and don't market it, you won't get any sales. Even with marketing, I believe, based on my own experiences and what I've heard from others, that photography is a tough sell much of the time, unless of course you are famous, in which case please buy one of my prints! My website gets a good deal of traffic in any given day, but the number of sales v. number of views is like bambi v. godzilla at best.

- Randy

jpeets said:

Seriously, though, there has been a lot of discussion of this, and it seems to me that this is a very tough way to make any money. I have had a website up for 3 years, and promoted it with other artists' sites, arts organizations, etc., handed out cards at art shows, etc., and never had anyone buy a print from me that had not seen one at a show.

Maybe someone else out there has had better experiences.

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Now, THAT's a point. Interesting...

jpeets said:

If I were you, I'd run for cover and hide . The Analogiban will hunt you down!

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No problem, on eBay, I got me a used, president to use as a shield... I hope he does not FAIL.

Open a Gallery. Team up. Dan

dancqu said:

Open a Gallery. Team up. Dan

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dancqu,

you are the clear winner for the 'best answer today contest'

Dan, are you teamed up in a gallery?
Dennis

dancqu said:

Open a Gallery. Team up. Dan

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I think that self-representation for photographers as well as cooperatives is definitely the wave of the future. The days of dealers and small galleries as an outlet is sadly going to go the way of the music store in my opinion. The ones dealing with contemporary work are going to have to adapt to the new world as much as we are. At least for a certain level of contemporary photographer, or any living artist for that matter, dealers will become much less an option. Look at all the musicias turning to direct marketing. It is easy to assume that dealers as middlemen are going to go the same way as record companies. I would advise anyone that wants to make it in this business to spend as much time on your online strategy as you do chasing the holy grail of representation. Maybe even more. I've heard a lot of frightening things going on in that area as the economy sags and changes and I would argue that it is almost becoming better to take charge of your own business matters and destiny than to rely on a gallery in this day and age.

billschwab said:

I think that self-representation for photographers as well as cooperatives is definitely the wave of the future. The days of dealers and small galleries as an outlet is sadly going to go the way of the music store in my opinion.

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So how do you get people to actually see your work (and not just a crappy JPG)?

Galleries are desireable if

1) they are physically located in an area with traffic (ie potential buyers). That means urban areas or major tourist venues, which translate into expensive real estate. No traffic= no sales, right?

2) they have some kind of reputation, and buyers trust their taste/judgement

3) they lend an air of professionalism

4) they promote your work, and hold openings, advertise, etc.

All of this is big bucks, and I don't see how an individual or a small co-op can manage to do it, especially with no prior reputation. As we see on APUG and elsewhere on the internet, there are legions of "photographers" trying to make a go of it, with relatively few producing anything of substance, or marketability, and fewer still making a living.

I have seen plenty of laughable self-promotion on the internet, and I have seen lots of sad-sack "galleries" that I wouldn't show in for free. Also lots of small galleries that last a matter of months.

It seems a tough business. I know that I would not buy any major art piece sight unseen, and would not expect a knowledgeable buyer to do so either.

Soooo, what is one to do?

It is a tough business. I have sold maybe 2 or 3 prints off my website, and two from a website called Photo Bistro... and one from ALTphotos. I have sold a few framed prints at a local art gallery.
On the other hand, I and four artist friends are currently in the planning stages of opening a coop gallery here in Puerto Rico. I am the only photographer; the others are painters in oil and acrylics, and a printmaker. At least. we began as friends... we may murder each other before we open...

eddym said:

I and four artist friends are currently in the planning stages of opening a coop gallery here in Puerto Rico. I am the only photographer; the others are painters in oil and acrylics, and a printmaker. At least. we began as friends... we may murder each other before we open...

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EEK!

In order to avoid murdering each other, be as businesslike as possible. Document everything in writing, contracts, etc. etc., do it properly, even if it seems silly at the time.

I started a business with two friends, and tried to do it properly, but ended up with one less friend and a strained friendship. Primary problem: everyone had a different idea of what it was all about, and we didn't hammer out the details in writing, and made a lot of ad hoc decisions that everyone finally got bent out of shape about.

Good luck, sincerely.

dpurdy said:

Dan, are you teamed up in a gallery?
Dennis

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Years ago I had some experience with that and an
arts-and-crafts fair. The Muse was short lived; A huge
building on temperary 'loan'. At that time it could be
said I was sculpting in wood making lamp shades
and speaker cabinates. Others there were
occupied in a variety of arts and crafts.

A Home Show display yielded orders totaling hundreds
and later I marketed through home decroative
accessory outlets; lamp dealer 'galleries'.

The arts-and-crafts fair was profitable. Exposure is
probably most important. Sign up for competitions and
show up at local fairs.

Everybody is after some finery. With proper packaging,
Gift Shops can be outlets for not too pricey, handy to
cart, finely done arts and crafts. Local has appeal for
those local and those traveling through. Dan

In the music business, there is something new, maybe a little similar to some ideas here.

Recently I found this website:

www.jamendo.com

FREE music from artists that just want to promote themselves. They don't make money with it, unless you want to give them a gift, it's like an electronic version of street music: if you like it you put money into the hat.

dancqu said:

Everybody is after some finery. With proper packaging, Gift Shops can be outlets for not too pricey, handy to
cart, finely done arts and crafts.

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Sounds like arts and crafts and reminds me of Buddha statues in giftware shops, no more than decoration for home. Strange, especially if you are Buddhist (I am), it is as weird as selling crucifixes as giftware... I bet my faith on it that this happens, not only in Vatican.

Okay, this was off topic, I admit. It's probably good advice accepting that customers buy our art as giftware and ornamentation for the living room or the guest toilet, even if we are "religious" about every aspect of our... decorative arts.

Are you asking what you should photograph or what type of photograph sells or whether your subject matter will sell, which we can't see so can't say?
The web is a worthwhile route if, and it's a big if, it is done properly with regard to your target audience. But if you just put another "I'm a fine art photographer and here are my images" type web site, then I doubt you will sell much if anything. There are thousands upon thousands of them and most receive little if any traffic.

I use a hybrid work flow consisting of a good scanner and a large Epson printer.

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Maybe just send the jpeg directly to the buyers printer. :

I hate to say I don't know but I don't know, OK, you'll have to try many ways to find the market gate, once there you'll have to be the best seller among all of the stalls.

rob champagne said:

Are you asking what you should photograph or what type of photograph sells or whether your subject matter will sell, which we can't see so can't say?
The web is a worthwhile route if, and it's a big if, it is done properly with regard to your target audience.

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Good question. I have a heap of old photographs and produce more. I can not change the old ones, but I can adapt a little what I photograph today. Classical marketing means, not only to think about advertising but also about production. Of course, I can not change myself, and I would never photograph if I had to photograph for a customer. But a little assimilation to market demand is possible

rob champagne said:

But if you just put another "I'm a fine art photographer and here are my images" type web site, then I doubt you will sell much if anything. There are thousands upon thousands of them and most receive little if any traffic.

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Right. It's like building a beautiful shop in the middle of the Sahara. In real life, nobody would expect to succeed with that, but many people expect their web shop to work even if it is in the middle of a desert named Web.

jpeets said:

EEK!

In order to avoid murdering each other, be as businesslike as possible. Document everything in writing, contracts, etc. etc., do it properly, even if it seems silly at the time.

I started a business with two friends, and tried to do it properly, but ended up with one less friend and a strained friendship. Primary problem: everyone had a different idea of what it was all about, and we didn't hammer out the details in writing, and made a lot of ad hoc decisions that everyone finally got bent out of shape about.

Good luck, sincerely.

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Yes, we're working on that now. It's... interesting, as they say. Like herding cats. I'm the only one with any real business training and experience, though the others are excellent artists. Hopefully we'll get all our bickering done before we incorporate and open the doors.

jpeets said:

Galleries are desireable if

1) they are physically located in an area with traffic (ie potential buyers). That means urban areas or major tourist venues, which translate into expensive real estate. No traffic= no sales, right?

2) they have some kind of reputation, and buyers trust their taste/judgement

3) they lend an air of professionalism

4) they promote your work, and hold openings, advertise, etc.

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I fully agree with this, unfortunately, there are plenty of galleries out their that just start out as some kind of hobby, and never make it to anything professional. They are not the ones to show your work in if it comes to sales... (self promotion in an exhibit is another thing).

I know of several good galleries in the centre of Amsterdam that both manage to attract traffic by their excellent location, and sales, even tourists just passing by asking for the possibility to ship a work of art costing maybe in the range of 5 - 25K dollar world wide. And yes, that does result in sales, I have seen it happening under my eyes visiting these kind of galleries...

Well, I could live of that kind of money

jpeets said:

So how do you get people to actually see your work (and not just a crappy JPG)?

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You'd be surprised how much work has sold via "crappy JPGs". What you have to do is be reliable and offer a satisfaction warranty. It is pretty simple. If someone doesn't like the work, give them their money back. Fast. You build loyalty and word of mouth that way. Also, I never said galleries weren't desirable, just that it is a rapidly changing environment and that the smaller galleries dealing with a lot of contemporary work are going to be fewer and fewer. On the other hand there are more and more photographers with the desire and thinking that they are worthy of representation. Vintage work will always have dealers, but for many who are alive and working, online or cooperatives will be the only answer.

As for getting your work out there? Hard work! You have to live and breathe your work. You have to get it in front of the right people and follow up on each and every shred of interest. It is very hard and you have to want it. The thing I very often see when people complain that work cannot be promoted and sold via the web is a lack of good hard work coupled with unreal expectations. It takes years to build a following and solid web presence. Too many think it happens overnight. Like they're going to put up a site and be able to quit their day job. It is not like that on the web OR with brick and mortar representation. First and foremost you have to have a deep and solid body of work and you have to continue to create that work like it is your job. If that's what you want it to be, that's what you have to make it. A couple shooting trips a year, or weekends with the camera isn't going to cut it. And then if you sell a couple prints a year through your website OR gallery, consider yourself lucky, be grateful and try harder.

If you already have a day job making good money, keep it! Photography is already an expensive hobby for you and unless you're really lucky, have independent wealth, a very supportive and gainfully employed spouse or are already retired, forget the type of stability you might have grown accustomed to. Do the numbers and imagine the number of prints you will have to sell per year to live like you currently do. Unless you've started at this business when you were young and have already grown accustomed to not having many of the things your friends with "real" jobs have, you're not going to like it.

Anyway... sorry if this sounds like a rant. I don't want to be discouraging, just realistic. I just think that if people that want to live from selling their work actually knew what it was like, they might think twice. It is not the holy grail many think it is save for a very small number of living artists. Like I said, If you have a good job, keep it! Chase sales and representation either online or in the real world like your photography. Make it a hobby and be grateful for each and every sale that comes along.

A surprisingly honest uppercut of fresh air, Bill.

Right on Bill!!

Great assesment of the reality of the situation. Just because our friends and family think we make great images doesn't mean the rest of the world will or is willing to pay money for them.
It has also been my experience one must be "in tune" with the market. That is "what is the latest fad". This may sound sad but it is true. Look how everyone chased Andy Warhol and his style or Ann lebowitz etc.
It seems that if one is to pursue art as a living somewhere along the line one will have to sacrifice ones artistic integrity to keep food on the table and work at it twice as hard as a day job, which I have kept.
I personally am concentrating on my local area i.e. community arts orginization and looking for opportunites to display my work in local businesses etc.

I advertise on APUG, I've run a stretch in B&W magazine, had my mug full page in View Camera courtesy of a Jim Galli portrait, and my you tube videos have a cumulative hit count of over fifty thousand. I have well over a hundred subscribers. I sell prints fairly regularly, when I actually have them available. I'd like to say I was so busy counting my money I didn't have time to post this, but the fact is when you figure time, expense etc. for shooting processing, printing, promoting, packaging, posting, etc. you aren't exactly printing money.

There is no way I could make a living from my present art print sales. I doubt I would ever be able to live on art print sales alone. I don't know of many who do... even the BIG names also publish books, do workshops, endorsements, and other things.

People like Leibovitz aren't making most of their money from "art print" sales, but rather for their time as a "commercial" or "fashion" photographer. Indeed, Leibovitz "print sales" didn't really start until she was already very established as a commercial photographer, and that fame and the fame of who she shoots is a huge part of her machine. If you are interested in selling art prints, you must first construct a machine to do so. It doesn't have to be like hers, but it's gotta be something. This is far more complicated than simply advertising your web site.

Photography is truly a labor of love. Print sales for most are a way to feed the habit. There are far easier ways to make a lot more money. You can make a living, even a very good living, but it won't come from art print sales alone, until you are already succesfull at something.

Oh, and fact: Traditional prints sell better than ink. Those who don't know or care, don't. The ones who do care are the rest. That means traditional prints work for everybody, and believe me, you need every bit you can get.