How to "see"....

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 24, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
Don't take any offense to this, but I think your statement clearly illustrates what the author meant when he said that some photographers learn to see "cumbersome, slow, and inefficient." Now I'm not saying YOU are cumbersome, slow, and inefficient, but what I am saying is that conversations about which format we're going to use, whether we'll use auto exposure, or if we use auto or manual focus is what incapacitates some photographers. I know that I personally suffer from the paralysis that comes from internal arguments that are usually based on gear and equipment. Which body will I'll take, or will I take all three? Which focal length to use? What aperture to set my lens to? And after the shot is made, what saturation setting to I move the slider to? Vignette or no vignette? Should I adjust the curves? Tone the paper, or not?

This is what I think he means when he says "cumbersome, slow, and inefficient."

This is where imposing artificial limitations on yourself comes into benefit. Make a whole bunch of those decisions before you leave the house. Pick JUST ONE CAMERA, and JUST ONE LENS, and JUST ONE FILM. Have an awareness of conditions before you leave so that you don't end up in a fog bank with ISO 25 film and no tripod, for example, or ISO 800 loaded in your medium format on a bright sunny day at noon when you want to shoot portraits and can't speed the shutter up enough to use anything larger than f/22. I found that my several trips to Paris, Rome, Florence, and Mexico City with only a Rolleiflex made me take so much better photos because all the gear fetishism had been dealt with. I was making the best photos I could using what I had to hand, and instead of worrying about "I could do THIS if I had X in my bag" I was just making selective edits before I even clicked the shutter. I was seeing with the tool in my hands, and as it was a very good tool, it got out of my way and let me concentrate on taking good pictures. There's an internal editing process that happens when you take pictures - you edit so much before you even put the camera to your eye, let alone between looking through the viewfinder and actually clicking the shutter. I'm not saying you have to pare down your cameras to just one camera and just one lens (unless you want to - nothing wrong with deciding on a single tool as the best tool to fit your vision). I'd be a raging hypocrite if I did so - I've got a Contax 35mm SLR, a Fuji mirrorless digital (and what, 6 lenses now?), a trio of Rolleiflexes (two 2.8 E models and a Tele), an RZ67 (and five lenses), a Lomo Belair X-6/12, a Lomo LCA 120, a Speed Graphic, a Sinar A1, Sinar F, Sinar Norma 4x5 and 5x7, Canham 5x7, 5x12, 8x10, 14x17, and a bunch of other odds-n-ends - they're all tools that exist for different purposes. I just make conscious choices when I leave the house - if I take the 5x12 with me, for example, I don't also drag along the Rolleiflex, because they're two totally different cameras that require thinking in different ways to use, and switching back and forth between them is going to make mediocre the results from both.

MattKing · Jan 24, 2021

My wife gets frustrated with me some times, when I stop, move around, look at something several ways, and then decide there isn't a photo there that I want, so no shutter ends up being released.
When that happens, I don't even think about settings, and often don't think about lens choice. Some times the camera doesn't even come to my eye.

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

Once one has decided what image to make -- one decides what tools to use, and all the other decisions fall into place. Craft services creativity.

One can not blame the tools (or the photographic process) if one can't decide on what images to make.

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 24, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
Don't take any offense to this, but I think your statement clearly illustrates what the author meant when he said that some photographers learn to see "cumbersome, slow, and inefficient." Now I'm not saying YOU are cumbersome, slow, and inefficient, but what I am saying is that conversations about which format we're going to use, whether we'll use auto exposure, or if we use auto or manual focus is what incapacitates some photographers. I know that I personally suffer from the paralysis that comes from internal arguments that are usually based on gear and equipment. Which body will I'll take, or will I take all three? Which focal length to use? What aperture to set my lens to? And after the shot is made, what saturation setting to I move the slider to? Vignette or no vignette? Should I adjust the curves? Tone the paper, or not?

This is what I think he means when he says "cumbersome, slow, and inefficient."

A lot of what you're talking about here is stuff you'll only learn by fucking it up a LOT, and paying attention to what you did and why it didn't work. It's called learning. I forget who said it, but there's a genius quote out there: "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly". It sounds counterintuitive, but what it means is that anything worth doing is worth LEARNING. And you learn by doing it wrong and trying again, lather, rinse, repeat. Another good photo quote: "my first 10,000 negatives were my worst". Make a LOT of photos, make a LOT of mistakes, and learn from each one of them. Eventually, those things like which aperture to choose, which film, which camera, which lens, will all become second nature and you'll be able to do those things instinctively and can concentrate on the anticipation of the moment, composition, and the other difficult things about taking pictures.

ALSO, I'd strongly strongly suggest posting those pictures here (or anywhere that you can get actual constructive feedback) and getting some feedback. Learning from mistakes is great, learning from them in a vacuum is incredibly difficult. Even if you think it sucks, share it anyway, and ask for criticism. Expect that you'll get plenty of feedback that reflects the personal biases of the critics and does not necessarily apply to your work, so grow a thick skin and take the comments with several pounds of salt. You'll probably get comments from landscape photographers that are highly critical of your flower work that are judging the image by landscape standards, and vice versa. But you'll also get feedback from flower photographers who have meaningful things to say that you can translate into direct action on your part. The photo school where I teach does a once a month "coffee and critique" for free - now it's virtual, but pre-pandemic we would get together at the school one sunday morning a month, people would bring prints, throw down on a table, and ask for feedback. I've found it highly beneficial and enjoyable to participate, because it makes me look at work that I wouldn't necessarily look at, and think about what works about the photos, what could be done better, and do they meet the photographers' objectives. I don't know if there is something local to you like that - I would be shocked if there were no similar resource if you're still in the Houston area.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 24, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
This is where imposing artificial limitations on yourself comes into benefit. Make a whole bunch of those decisions before you leave the house. Pick JUST ONE CAMERA, and JUST ONE LENS, and JUST ONE FILM. Have an awareness of conditions before you leave so that you don't end up in a fog bank with ISO 25 film and no tripod, for example, or ISO 800 loaded in your medium format on a bright sunny day at noon when you want to shoot portraits and can't speed the shutter up enough to use anything larger than f/22. I found that my several trips to Paris, Rome, Florence, and Mexico City with only a Rolleiflex made me take so much better photos because all the gear fetishism had been dealt with. I was making the best photos I could using what I had to hand, and instead of worrying about "I could do THIS if I had X in my bag" I was just making selective edits before I even clicked the shutter. I was seeing with the tool in my hands, and as it was a very good tool, it got out of my way and let me concentrate on taking good pictures. There's an internal editing process that happens when you take pictures - you edit so much before you even put the camera to your eye, let alone between looking through the viewfinder and actually clicking the shutter. I'm not saying you have to pare down your cameras to just one camera and just one lens (unless you want to - nothing wrong with deciding on a single tool as the best tool to fit your vision). I'd be a raging hypocrite if I did so - I've got a Contax 35mm SLR, a Fuji mirrorless digital (and what, 6 lenses now?), a trio of Rolleiflexes (two 2.8 E models and a Tele), an RZ67 (and five lenses), a Lomo Belair X-6/12, a Lomo LCA 120, a Speed Graphic, a Sinar A1, Sinar F, Sinar Norma 4x5 and 5x7, Canham 5x7, 5x12, 8x10, 14x17, and a bunch of other odds-n-ends - they're all tools that exist for different purposes. I just make conscious choices when I leave the house - if I take the 5x12 with me, for example, I don't also drag along the Rolleiflex, because they're two totally different cameras that require thinking in different ways to use, and switching back and forth between them is going to make mediocre the results from both.

"Gear fetishism" - I've never heard it termed like that, but it's exactly what it is, and what I've suffered from for YEARS. Ever since I purchased my first DSLR in 2009 it's been a constant search to find something bigger and better that would make me a better photographer. I've done some good stuff, but I don't think I've done my best... yet. This year is about changing that. No more buying and trading, no more collecting, no more playing around.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 24, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
A lot of what you're talking about here is stuff you'll only learn by fucking it up a LOT, and paying attention to what you did and why it didn't work. It's called learning.

My biggest character flaw when it comes to learning, has been that I refused to acknowledge my mistakes. And not just mistakes like wrong aperture or shutter speed, I'm talking like personal mistakes, like using "gear fetishism" to fill the void that something like quitting alcohol left. THAT is my biggest issue. I've used the thrill of buying various gear and the resulting adrenaline dump as a replacement for other physical and emotional shortages, and then always end up frustrated when I still can't produce something I am proud of. So for me, "learning to see" isn't just about what I'm photographing right now, it's an all encompassing thing right now.

removed account4 · Jan 24, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
My biggest character flaw when it comes to learning, has been that I refused to acknowledge my mistakes. And not just mistakes like wrong aperture or shutter speed, I'm talking like personal mistakes, like using "gear fetishism" to fill the void that something like quitting alcohol left. THAT is my biggest issue. I've used the thrill of buying various gear and the resulting adrenaline dump as a replacement for other physical and emotional shortages, and then always end up frustrated when I still can't produce something I am proud of. So for me, "learning to see" isn't just about what I'm photographing right now, it's an all encompassing thing right now.

LOL. everyone is guilty of loving to buy and use something new. the hard part ( that everyone will acknowledge .. maybe ) is actually becoming a user not a collector.
how about just taking everything but 1 camera, the one you are most comfortable with, and putting the rest of them in a box off-boat. and just use 1 camera and 1 lens and make photographs.
having gear .. cameras and lenses - becomes a burden seeing it becomes impossible to decide on what to use instead of just using...

BradS · Jan 24, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
....like using "gear fetishism" to fill the void that something like quitting alcohol left. THAT is my biggest issue. I've used the thrill of buying various gear and the resulting adrenaline dump as a replacement for other physical and emotional shortages, .....

I assure you, you are not alone in this regard.

It took me a very long time to discover and admit that having too much gear to choose from results in creative constipation. So, I think you're ahead in the game and well on your way to making work that you can and will be pleased with.

Michael Firstlight · Jan 24, 2021

The best photography class I ever took - hands down - wasn't a technical one - it was called Mindful Photography back in the late 90's (Duke University continuing ed). It seemed odd and goofy at first, but we went out and shot a lot, only we were taught how to win back control our senses and our critical thinking when making images. We're really a highly desensitized generation as humans; few really know how to slow down and (literally) smell the roses. So we went out and shot 'normal' at first - got some decent images. then went back out - same places, shut our eyes, cleared our minds, and began using ALL of our senses - even the non visual ones - touch, taste, smell too - eyes closed for just a few short minutes. Then open eyes and regain full awareness - it actually works. Sure, it's a bit of meditation, but for a very specific and practical purpose. If I go to say, a beautiful waterfall I've likely hiked a ways, am a bit winded, see the scene I want to shoot and start shooting away. Because we're not fully sensitized- and many cultures are in 'rush' mode all the time, just getting a few frames out of the way quickly doesn't hurt any, but then take a break - stop, sit, listen, smell, touch - it forces one to slow down and begin to see. There's also other elements of mindfulness that include thinking about your message - you are, by default like it or not, communicating with your viewer even of you don't think you are (tenant #1 in communications - you cannot not communicate), so take conscious ownership of the message. You are, in effect saying "this is important", and maybe even why. Even with scenic images there's a message through the composition - you choices on leading lines and patterns, foreground, in-camera cropping, use of positive and negative space, use of tonality, use of perspective, taking noticing of detracting elements in frame, and much more - they all are tools to mold the message as well as visual impact.

MFL

ChristopherCoy · Jan 24, 2021

BradS said:
I assure you, you are not alone in this regard.

It took me a very long time to discover and admit that having too much gear to choose from results in creative constipation. So, I think you're ahead in the game and well on your way to making work that you can and will be pleased with.

This is my second attempt at long term sobriety, and after two years of stepwork, all of these things are starting to change for me. I'm not only realizing things that I never knew, I'm acknowledging them and moving past them.

foc · Jan 24, 2021

Here is an example of keeping it simple.

Taken by Bert Hardy 1951 with a box camera.

The contact sheet.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

If you go out during magic hour, you'll regularly see and shoot better shots than during the midday. It's hard to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
My biggest character flaw when it comes to learning, has been that I refused to acknowledge my mistakes. And not just mistakes like wrong aperture or shutter speed, I'm talking like personal mistakes, like using "gear fetishism" to fill the void that something like quitting alcohol left. THAT is my biggest issue. I've used the thrill of buying various gear and the resulting adrenaline dump as a replacement for other physical and emotional shortages, and then always end up frustrated when I still can't produce something I am proud of. So for me, "learning to see" isn't just about what I'm photographing right now, it's an all encompassing thing right now.

Sounds a little like a mid-life crisis when you start to wonder what it's all about. Is this it?

A good read of Ecclesiastes might help.

cliveh · Jan 24, 2021

jnantz said:
if you have't read it, the zen and the art of archery is a pretty good book about photography have fun !

Zen and the art of archery is a book that Georges Braque the painter gave HCB in the 1950's. I don't think it taught HCB anything, but reaffirmed what he was already doing. A great book to read if you haven't already read which will take your photography onto a different level.

Sirius Glass · Jan 24, 2021

jnantz said:
It’s more about observing / noticing the he things that interest you and figuring out how to make them "look good". comes by practice and noticing how painter and sculptors and architect / artists of the ages made stuff look good ( how they built what they made ) and translating their knowledge and knowhow that you have somehow absorbed through immersion into what you noticed / observed... I’m sure as a policeman you are trained in noticing things.. it’s the same sort of thing. You do something enough it becomes second nature.. and if it looks good to you that’s all that matters.

if you have't read it, the zen and the art of archery is a pretty good book about photography

have fun !

When I was in the scouts I was taught to be observant. That is now called "Situation Awareness". That is probably where I first learned this "seeing".

rick shaw · Jan 24, 2021

Vaughn said:
Once one has decided what image to make -- one decides what tools to use, and all the other decisions fall into place. Craft services creativity.

One can not blame the tools (or the photographic process) if one can't decide on what images to make.

Where is that LIKE button?

+1,000,000

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
If you go out during magic hour, you'll regularly see and shoot better shots than during the midday. It's hard to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

I always go 'ouch' when I hear this. So wrong. About 95% of my images are outside of the 'magic hours'. Well, the 'magic hours' under the redwoods happens to be 10am to 2pm, so I guess I hit those all the time. Civilized hours. And of course there are far more 'non-magic' hours than magic hours, so far more opportunity to make images during the non-magic hours. So staticacally, your statement is incorrect.

The whole idea of learning to 'see' is to always be seeing. To watch the light as it is, to watch what it becomes, and perhaps interact with it by borrowing a few photons. In Death Valley I am out there all day long, perhaps shifting location in mid-afternoon and photographing until the light sweetly dies. There are always "better" shots...use PhotoShop for the silk purses...

8x10 platinum/palladium print, Death Valley, somewhere outside the magic hours

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 24, 2021

Would somebody mind explaining what gear has to do with ... seeing?

And as I have no interest in reading any Tao of ... or Zen of ... books, did Mr. Steve also publish Tao of Truck Repair and Tao of Becoming a Con Artist?

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

Not so much with the seeing, but gear is used in the translation of seeing-to-image. Not only does one need to speak both languages to translate (seeing and image-making), but know how the different tools will affect the quality, effectiveness and accuracy of the translation.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

Vaughn said:
I always go 'ouch' when I hear this. So wrong. About 95% of my images are outside of the 'magic hours'. Well, the 'magic hours' under the redwoods happens to be 10am to 2pm, so I guess I hit those all the time. Civilized hours. And of course there are far more 'non-magic' hours than magic hours, so far more opportunity to make images during the non-magic hours. So staticacally, your statement is incorrect.

The whole idea of learning to 'see' is to always be seeing. To watch the light as it is, to watch what it becomes, and perhaps interact with it by borrowing a few photons. In Death Valley I am out there all day long, perhaps shifting location in mid-afternoon and photographing until the light sweetly dies. There are always "better" shots...use PhotoShop for the silk purses...

8x10 platinum/palladium print, Death Valley, somewhere outside the magic hours

We don't have Redwoods here in NJ. But I understand your point. However, it is easier to find better light during the magic hour. They don't call it the magic hour for nothing.

During the midday, the light is flat while at the beginning and end of the day, it shifts to greater angles that cast light more aesthetically. Colors jump, contrast increases. Everything seems warmer, cozier. All those things show in the photo.

If someone is feeling frustrated, getting out during that time will inspire you to see better. It will teach you what to look for in lighting that is the heart of photography. Light makes a picture. Sure you need composition, meaningful subjects, etc. But inspiring light is key.

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

There is no "better light", grasshopper...

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 24, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
If you go out during magic hour, you'll regularly see and shoot better shots than during the midday. It's hard to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Ditto what Vaughn said about "magic hour". Sure, it's great, but learning to see is all about understanding the light you have and making something out of it. If you're taking lousy pictures at high noon on a sunny day, you're not paying attention to the light you have and using it to shape your subjects. Yes, it's strong, it's directional, and it's contrasty. But those are all things that can be made to work together to create great images. Strong, directional, contrasty light gives drama! It lends itself to creating geometric abstractions. It's not bad, it's just not soft, directionless portrait lighting. It's not f2.8 light, it's f22 light, but that's ok. That's why lenses have more than one aperture and shutters have more than one speed.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 24, 2021

cliveh said:
Zen and the art of archery is a book that Georges Braque the painter gave HCB in the 1950's. I don't think it taught HCB anything, but reaffirmed what he was already doing. A great book to read if you haven't already read which will take your photography onto a different level.

Are y’all referring to the 1948 book by Eugene Herrigel?

Sirius Glass · Jan 24, 2021

MattKing said:
My wife gets frustrated with me some times, when I stop, move around, look at something several ways, and then decide there isn't a photo there that I want, so no shutter ends up being released.
When that happens, I don't even think about settings, and often don't think about lens choice. Some times the camera doesn't even come to my eye.

I have done that too.

While I am taking photographs, Anne who is a docent at LACMA wanders around. After I finish taking photographs, Anne shows me what she saw. That often doubles my time at a location and it is something we do together.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
Ditto what Vaughn said about "magic hour". Sure, it's great, but learning to see is all about understanding the light you have and making something out of it. If you're taking lousy pictures at high noon on a sunny day, you're not paying attention to the light you have and using it to shape your subjects. Yes, it's strong, it's directional, and it's contrasty. But those are all things that can be made to work together to create great images. Strong, directional, contrasty light gives drama! It lends itself to creating geometric abstractions. It's not bad, it's just not soft, directionless portrait lighting. It's not f2.8 light, it's f22 light, but that's ok. That's why lenses have more than one aperture and shutters have more than one speed.

Of course, you can get great shots at noon. My point was directed to someone who said they can't get inspired or see great shots. So I suggested magic hour so they can learn what great light looks like and start taking some pictures that they will feel proud of. Let them learn by seeing what great light looks like. Then they can apply what they learned to other times. You have to walk before you can run.

How to "see"....

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