How to prevent yellow stain in print from sun?

NB23 said:

-Fix 1-2 minutes with fresh fixer
-Tone the image with Selenium. Gold even better, as well as Sepia. But Selenium is best if you want to keep the image B&W.
-UV Glass over the print.

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my 2¢ are: any toning is better than nonebutshort of full toning,sulphide toning is a very archival procedure
my 'archivaldarkroomworkflow:
1. pick a good fibre-bsed paper such as Ilford MGIV
2.expose for the highlights and correct contrast for the shadows
3.use two-bath-fixing
4.briefwash|(5min)
5.mld sulphide toning(2-8min)
6. full wash(30-60min)
7.Sistan treatment(2min)
8. store cool and dry in the dark in acid-free materialsaway from fresh paint or carpet.

Yes, testing the fixer is almost useless. You must test the print. And, since one of the tests is Sodium Sulfide solution, yes a Sulfide toner will show the problem. But, all you need is a drop on the border!

PE

It might not be the silver but simply yellowing of the paper base.

ath said:

It might not be the silver but simply yellowing of the paper base.

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You've got a Baryta layer between the emulsion and the paper.

Ian

ath said:

It might not be the silver but simply yellowing of the paper base.

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Quite, and has Gerald has mentioned exposure to sunlight combined with today's air pollution may be a problem. In other words, it's not just about photographic chemistry. Having said that, sepia toning for archival permanence is hard to beat.

Thanks all, one more question: two-bath-fixing - two times 2 min, or (Ilford rapid fixer 1+4)?

Ian Grant said:

The real issue here is if the silver levels in the fixer have risen with use then prolonging fixing will allow more of the semi-soluble silver thiosulphate complexes to bond weakly to the cellulose in the paper base and these may become very difficult to wash out even with a wash aid.

From experience 5 minutes in fresh Hypam or Ilford Rapid fixer is too long and definitely causes slight image bleaching (with warm tone papers), the recommend time is 1 minute at 1+4 and 2 minutes at 1+9

Ilford recommend a maximum silver level in a one bath fixer of 2g/litre for FB prints and say -you can go to 4-6g/litre with RC paper as the paper base is protected on both sides by an impervious polythene layer.

Ian

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Ian,

I guess I should qualify and modify my earlier post. I don't want to mislead anyone or generalize where I shoudn't

Of course, when speaking of accidentally fixing too long, I'm assuming fixer that has not been used beyond capacity and, therefore, that there wouldn't be a lot of really complex insoluble compounds to wash out. "Unwashable" really only happens with overused fixer as far as I know.

As for bleaching at 5 minutes in Rapid Fix 1+4... I've never fixed a print that long in Hypam or Rapid Fix at 1+4. For the 1+9 dilution, four minutes total fixing time (2 min each bath, which is long for me) has never caused any loss in highlight detail; but then again, I use cold-tone papers. I guess I'll have to do some extended fixing tests to find out exactly where bleaching sets in.

However, even if the print is slightly bleached, if the fixer was relatively fresh and five minutes time was given, I'd still think one could wash the print to "archival" standards (for me, no stain with ST-1 and HT-2). But again, I haven't tried it. Nevertheless, Kodak recommends 5-10 minutes for its Rapid Fixer at the 1+7 dilution, which has similar composition to the Ilford products and should be roughly equivalent to the Ilford 1+9 dilution unless I'm mistaken...

But don't misunderstand me: I am not advocating anything but fixing for the optimum time for the product and dilution being used. Why people can't read the directions and use the manufacturers' recommendations as to fixing times and capacities is just beyond me (and the main reason for my earlier rant).

Whatever fixing method we end up with, either the Ilford sequence using stronger fixer and shorter times or the more traditional Kodak method with longer fixing and wash times, we should strive to optimize times and capacities. If we aren't testing our own workflow and establishing our own process limitations and optimizations, then at least we can read the directions and follow them.

Best,

Doremus

darkosaric said:

Thanks all, one more question: two-bath-fixing - two times 2 min, or (Ilford rapid fixer 1+4)?

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Darko,

Read this http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130218312091.pdf paying attention to the sections on fixing times and capacities on page 2 and two-bath fixing on page 3 and you'll have the answer to your questions for "general purpose" processing. But wait, there's more information on processing for optimum permanence in the section on silver concentration on page 4. If we read between the lines, if we wish to have "optimum permanence" and use the 1+4 dilution one bath, the capacity of the fixer drops from 40 to only 10 8x10-inch prints per liter of working solution. This is uneconomical for me and the best argument I know of for two bath fixation.

I prefer to use Ilford Hypam or Rapid fix in the 1+9 dilution for fiber-base prints. First, although the wash times might be shorter with the shorter fixing times at 1+4, I find it inconvenient (if not difficult) to keep the wet time in the fixer to just one minute, especially with a two-bath fixing regime where I have to drain (sometimes rather large) prints before transferring to the next bath. Thirty seconds in each bath plus a couple of 15-second drains plus my possibly not snatching the print at exactly the right time ends up being closer to two minutes time in contact with the fixer, thus effectively negating the advantage of using a stronger fix for a shorter time... I find 1.5 minutes in each bath including drain time with the 1+9 dilution more manageable.

As for capacity: my workflow provides for 36 8x10-inch prints or equivalent per liter of working solution at the 1+9 dilution with a two-bath fixing regime. After capacity for the first bath has been reached (i.e., 36 8x10s per liter of bath one), it is discarded and replaced by the second bath. A new second bath is then mixed. In practice, I often don't replace the spent first bath with a second one, just mix a new one. I tone my prints in selenium to a pleasing visual tone and then give them a 10-minute bath in a wash aid and a minimum one hour wash in an "archival" print washer. I test the last print (i.e., print 36) through the entire regime for residual silver and hypo to confirm fixing and washing have been adequate.


Best,

Doremus

Thanks again Doremus for very detailed explanation. This 36 8x10 prints in 1+9 (two bath) sound very easy to track .

darkosaric said:

Thanks again Doremus for very detailed explanation. This 36 8x10 prints in 1+9 (two bath) sound very easy to track .

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For me, 36 prints is three 12-slot washerfuls and is quite convenient for batches of up to 16x20" prints. I usually print for several days till I have 36 "keepers" and then do a toning session.

I know that my regime works because I always test the last print through, i.e., the one with the "worst" fix. No stain at all for ST-1 is my "standard."

Your results may vary; that's why it's so important to do the tests.

Best,

Doremus

You can Guillotine borders and mount on white card.
Hypo clear is effective