How to make LF composing card with proper focal length?

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Kino

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One problem I have with beginning large format photography is pre-visualizing field of view on view camera lenses. I am so accustomed to thinking in 35mm format focal lengths, that I am flummoxed with large format lenses on a view camera.

I tend to set up at the wrong spot and spend a huge amount of time going all over the place with the camera on a tripod, trying to get the proper framing.

I've seen workshops where the participants are given a matte board card with the proper aspect ratio and a chain or string that places the card at the proper distance from your face to accurately show the field of view for a particular lens/format combination.

I should know this, but how do you make these cards?

Pretty sure it would save me a lot of grief in the coming months.
 
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Kino

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Or you could use one of these:

That's a good idea, but I have, 4x5, 5x7 and Whole Plate cameras to consider.

Matt board is cheaper! :wink:

I know I have seen instructions on how to make one of these viewers, but for the life of me I cannot locate a source now...
 
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fiddle

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I is an app called magic film I think. Android. It's free.
Not the most accurate, and I ly goes as wide as your phones lens, but for 150 and beyond it's pretty close.
 

wiltw

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The aspect ratio of LF is shorter than 135 format, complicating things a bit...5:4 vs. 3:2

If you think in terms of the short dimension of the frame, multiples of the frame size give 'same content'...

  • 24mm in 135 (1*24mm) is like 90mm in 4x5 (1*90mm)
  • 35mm in 135 ((1.46*24mm) is like 130mm in 4x5 (1.46*90mm)
  • 48mm in 135 (2*24mm) is like 180mm in 4x5 (2*90mm)
  • 150mm in 135 (6.25*24mm) is like 560mm in 4x5 (6.25*90mm)
In terms of portraiture, which has to fit the shoulders of the subject into the short dimension, this a pretty natural way of equating things between the formats.

But since many of us shoot Landscape, equating things is somewhat difficult using the short dimension of the frame.
24mm FL on 135 sees 74 degrees horizontally (long dimension), but it takes 67mm on 4x5 to get same AOV....I see no convenient way to compute FL for same horizontal AOV.
 
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otto.f

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The apps are : Cadrage or Viewfinder. Viewfinder is the best because it includes films and filters. Reciprocity Timer for long exposures. All free or cheap
 

Laurent

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When I was doing LF, I made myself one of these.

Basically anything with a hole in it with the proper aspect ration, with anything else that makes you able to set it at the right distance from your dominant eye.

In my case a piece of fine plywood, painted black and with a 4x5 cm opening, and a rule graduated in focal lenses with a factor of 2.54 (inches to cm) for example 59mm for a "normal" lens of 150mm focal.

Don't think I still have the device, but I hope my explanation is fine.

This is well described in "Finely focused" by Bruce Barlow.
 

Romanko

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I should know this, but how do you make these cards?

Basically anything with a hole in it with the proper aspect ration, with anything else that makes you able to set it at the right distance from your dominant eye.

I believe you are overthinking the design of such a primitive focusing aid. As Laurent said cut a hole with the right aspect ratio in a piece of board. Attach a string to the board. Calibrate the string by adjusting the distance between the board and your dominant eye until you see the same scene through the hole an on the ground glass of your camera. Make a mark on the string and repeat the process for each lens you have.
 

Joe Kashi

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Or, you could buy an optical "Director's Viewfinder" on Amazon form $150 and up.

Just determine which of the various aspect ratio settings best matches your LF format and the conversion factor for LF lenses.

For example, 35mm aspect ratio matches 5x7 fairly closely and the linear ( not diagonal ! ) conversion from the 36mm long side of 35mm film frame to the 177mm long edge of 5x7 film is very close to 5X, so what's marked on a director's viewfinder as a 35mm lens on 35mm film translates into using a 180mm lens on 5x7. Depending upon the LF format, one would choose the closest aspect ratio for accurate framing and then work out the conversions as per above.

The mental math is pretty simple or you can work out a cheat sheet.
 

guangong

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First, I would stick to one lens for a while, until experience and habit provides the same previsual advantage that you now have shooting 35mm. Afterwards, add other lenses.
I only have two lenses for my Wista for what I photograph, but your interest and needs may differ, requiring more lenses. Still, I would suggest getting the knack about one lens first, thereby cultivating a craft.
 

xkaes

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I believe you are overthinking the design of such a primitive focusing aid. As Laurent said cut a hole with the right aspect ratio in a piece of board. Attach a string to the board. Calibrate the string by adjusting the distance between the board and your dominant eye until you see the same scene through the hole an on the ground glass of your camera. Make a mark on the string and repeat the process for each lens you have.

That's what I've done -- an 8x10 gray card (that I can also use for metering) with a 4x5" section cut out of the middle (attached with a piece of tape on the white side to act as a flap) with a Wratten #90 viewing filter also attached (as another flap). Add in a small cloth retractable ruler -- marked off accordingly for your lenses -- with one end between your teeth.

Works great.
 
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The aspect ratio of LF is shorter than 135 format, complicating things a bit...5:4 vs. 3:2

If you think in terms of the short dimension of the frame, multiples of the frame size give 'same content'...

  • 24mm in 135 (1*24mm) is like 90mm in 4x5 (1*90mm)
  • 35mm in 135 ((1.46*24mm) is like 130mm in 4x5 (1.46*90mm)
  • 48mm in 135 (2*24mm) is like 180mm in 4x5 (2*90mm)
  • 150mm in 135 (6.25*24mm) is like 560mm in 4x5 (6.25*90mm)
In terms of portraiture, which has to fit the shoulders of the subject into the short dimension, this a pretty natural way of equating things between the formats.

But since many of us shoot Landscape, equating things is somewhat difficult using the short dimension of the frame.
24mm FL on 135 sees 74 degrees horizontally (long dimension), but it takes 67mm on 4x5 to get same AOV....I see no convenient way to compute FL for same horizontal AOV.

Try this app. It will provide both horizontal and vertical field and angle of views. Note that there are two possible answers of each depending on the type of focusing the lens does. (internal like a DSLR or movement of the whole lens as a large format lens does or a medium format like RB67.)
https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{%22c%22:[{%22f%22:13,%22av%22:%228%22,%22fl%22:50,%22d%22:3048,%22cm%22:%220%22}],%22m%22:0}
 
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Kino

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Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

I have until Spring to figure this out, so I can try a few options.
 

ic-racer

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The hole in the card matches your film format. The distance from your eye matches the lens focal length.
 
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I use my micro 4/3 digital camera as a director's viewfinder. Just adjust the zoom until it matches the view for each of your LF lens and note where that setting is for the next time. Another advantage is I use it as an exposure meter with its histogram and blinkies and to record verbally my settings, so I don't have to write it down while busy shooting the shot with my large format camera. I'll transcribe it when I get home. I can also record a digital or video backup shot for reference. I'll also switch the digital camera to BW view if shooting BW film.
 

BrianShaw

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Personally, I’d cut a 4x5 hole in a 3x5 index card and use that. Many years ago I bought Zone VI viewing devices and never found them useful for either of their two purposes. Practice (eye-training) was much more effective. So was getting comfortable with the notion that photography often involves setting up and moving for better composition.
 
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Kino

Kino

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So was getting comfortable with the notion that photography often involves setting up and moving for better composition.

Yes, I agree; just trying to get in the ballpark to set up. I don't think one can escape the inevitable adjusting a few feet here or there, but trying to avoid huge moves after setting the tripod.

I will probably only have one lens per format to start with anyway, so this should simplify the situation somewhat.
 
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Cut a hole the same size as the neg's image size, then the distance from your eye is the focal length. 90mm=90mm lens. Easy peasy.

I use Artist Viewfinder these days on my IPhone. It can adapt to wide angle attachments so it is accurate for wide lenses too. Every format is in there and even custom ones if you want. You can also take a picture with it for reference. It isn't very expensive either.
 

Ian C

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If you’re going to make a viewing card, you’d want to design it so that it works for a viewing distance that makes sense for your arm length, if you want to hold it at arm’s length, or somewhat less. In my case that would be about 500 mm.

For a viewing distance d and angle of view θ, the correct opening dimension w is

w = 2d*tan(θ/2)

A 90 mm lens used on the 4” x 5” format (95 mm x 120 mm) gives viewing angles of 55.6º across the 95 mm dimension and 67.4º across the 120 mm dimension.

The minor dimension of the opening in the card is w1 = 2* 500 mm*tan(55.6º/2) = 527 mm

The major dimension is w2 = 2*500 mm*tan(67.4º/2) = 666.9 mm

That’s a large, cumbersome card.

It could be scaled smaller for a closer viewing distance to reduce its size to something manageable. Using a scaling factor of 1/3, we’d have an opening of 175.6 mm x 222 mm at a viewing distance of 166.7 mm. That’s much more manageable.

Another option you should consider is using a tool you likely already own: An SLR. The SLR can also serve as your light meter, assuming that it is so equipped.

If you stated the formats and lenses you plan on using, we can give you a table of equivalent view angles.

Here’s an example using a 35 mm SLR for the preview. Suppose that you want to use a 4” x 5” camera and might use 75 mm, 90 mm, 135 mm, 150 mm, 210 mm, 300 mm lenses. It would be most convenient to mount a zoom lens with a wide range of marked focal lengths onto the SLR. You could then read the approximate focal length at the setting that gives you the angle view that looks best in the finder. Of course, you must choose either the major or the minor dimension as your reference.

Since focal length equivalence can only be established for one pair of dimensions at a time for different aspect ratios, you’d need to decide which pair is most important: major, minor, or diagonal. For landscape photography, this is most often the major dimension of the format.

A list of common 4” x 5” focal lengths, view angle across the minor dimension, and the equivalent 35 mm format lens that sees the same angle across its minor dimension is given followed by the long-dimension AOV and 35 mm formal equivalent lens in parentheses.

75 mm, 64.7º, 18.9 mm, (77.3º, 22.5 mm)

90 mm, 55.6º, 22.7 mm, (64.7º, 27.0 mm)

135 mm, 38.8º, 34.1 mm, (47.92º, 40.5 mm)

150 mm, 35.1º, 37.9 mm, (43.6º, 45 mm)

210 mm, 25.5º, 53 mm, (31.9º, 63.0 mm)

300 mm, 18º, 75.8 mm, (22.6º, 90.0 mm)

This could also be set up for a non-film SLR whose format dimensions are known.

As you can see by reading the responses, there are several options to determine the LF lens you need to match the most important dimension that matches the preview. I like using the SLR method for its convenience.

If you need help in determining the equivalences for your format and range of lenses, just ask here. One of us can give you the answers you seek, whether you choose to make a viewing card, multiple cards, or use an SLR. We’d need to know the format and the focal length of lenses you plan to use.
 

wiltw

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Try this app. It will provide both horizontal and vertical field and angle of views. Note that there are two possible answers of each depending on the type of focusing the lens does. (internal like a DSLR or movement of the whole lens as a large format lens does or a medium format like RB67.)
https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{%22c%22:[{%22f%22:13,%22av%22:%228%22,%22fl%22:50,%22d%22:3048,%22cm%22:%220%22}],%22m%22:0}

An app similar to this is precisely how I had to determine the long frame dimension 24mm AOV on 135 format equivalence 4x5 format FL AOV

As an aside, I have long suspected the frame dimensions for 4x5 used by the app I used were suspect...and comparing my recent calculation (67mm) vs. your app calculations (79mm) reinforces my suspicions...I had long thought of 24mm on 135 is rather equivalent to 75mm on 4x5.
After using your linked app, I was able to determine that if you take the 135 format lens FL, and simply multiply it by the factor of 3.33x, one can directly compute the 4x5 lens FL that gives 'the same' long dimension of the frame AOV on 4x5 as contained within the 135 format long dimension of its frame!
  • 24mm on 135 (74 degrees) is like 79mm on 4x5 long dimension
  • 35mm on 135 (54 degrees) is like 117mm on 4x5 long dimension
  • 50mm on 135 (40 degrees) is like 166mm on 4x5 long dimension
 
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LOL.
Good luck with that! 🤣
I've used actual-size cutouts (4x5") in mat board, the Zone VI viewing filter and a hole cut out of a 3x5 index card. My index card was folded in half and kept in a shirt pocket. Pull it out, unfold, view: EZPZ.

All the above work just about equally well for framing purposes. Personally, I like my Zone VI viewing filter. The Wratten #90 filter it has helps (a little) with judging tonal convergences since it removes much of the color from the scene.

OP,

I'd go for a smaller than 4x5" hole in a piece of mat board. All you need is the right aspect ratio and the ability to move the opening closer and farther from your eye. A small viewing frame on a lanyard that you can keep in a shirt pocket is quite handy. Figure out what distance corresponds to which focal length by simply comparing to the ground-glass image for your lenses and tie a knot or make a mark on the lanyard.

I rarely have to change lenses from the one I choose this way; maybe once or twice in 10 set-ups, and then only to the next longer or shorter lens I'm carrying.

Best,

Doremus
 

Sharktooth

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I had the same desire to make a viewing card last year, and made a little Excel file to calculate the size and viewing distance for different lenses.

I've modified that file and made it available here in the attachment. You enter the lens focal length and the film format dimensions. With that information, you can either create a new card based on a desired card viewing distance, or find the appropriate viewing distance for a card you already have.
 

Attachments

  • Viewing Card by Sharktooth.xls
    33.5 KB · Views: 72
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