How to improve black for the specific developer?

SadChild · Oct 16, 2009

Hello,

I've just used a developer created by Patrick Gainer:
"Mix 1 tsp (about 3 g) hydroquinone, 1/2 teaspoon ascorbic acid crystals and 1 tablespoon of sodium carbonate (about 15 g) in a quart of water."

The color on FB Fomatone MG 132 is great but blacks are not deep. How to improve them?

Thanks in advance.

Kirk Keyes · Oct 16, 2009

How long did you develop for?

You could always try doubling the concentration of all the ingredients and see how you like it.

SadChild · Oct 16, 2009

Kirk Keyes said:
How long did you develop for?

You could always try doubling the concentration of all the ingredients and see how you like it.

I develop around 4 mins. Thanks for advice i will try doubling.

jeroldharter · Oct 16, 2009

SadChild said:
I develop around 4 mins. Thanks for advice i will try doubling.

4 minutes is probably too long. Do you have a specific reason for that time? 2-3 minutes should be plenty.

juan · Oct 16, 2009

Expose more for darker blacks. Of course, that might mess up the high values.
juan

Richard Wasserman · Oct 16, 2009

How is the overall contrast of the prints? I believe this is a variable contrast paper, what number filters are you using,maybe you need to add more contrast?

SadChild · Oct 16, 2009

jeroldharter said:
4 minutes is probably too long. Do you have a specific reason for that time? 2-3 minutes should be plenty.

At 3 min the blacks are still pale.

SadChild · Oct 16, 2009

juan said:
Expose more for darker blacks. Of course, that might mess up the high values.
juan

Yep, the highs become messy if increase exposure.

SadChild · Oct 16, 2009

Richard Wasserman said:
How is the overall contrast of the prints? I believe this is a variable contrast paper, what number filters are you using,maybe you need to add more contrast?

I used maximum magenta and still no enough contrast. Maybe i need to add more activator (sodium carbonate).

tim_bessell · Oct 16, 2009

Paraphrased from The Darkroom Cookbook:
"highlights are enhanced by the restraining properties of bromide, while blacks become stronger and richer with carbonate".

calling Mr. G

phritz phantom · Oct 16, 2009

SadChild said:
Yep, the highs become messy if increase exposure.

are we talking about positives here?
if your highlights print fine before the blacks are dark enought, your film is most likely underdeveloped. develop (the negative) longer or use a more active developer. on the other hand it could also be a result of severe overexposure (of the film) and normal development.

Kirk Keyes · Oct 17, 2009

SadChild said:
I used maximum magenta and still no enough contrast.

Sounds like your negs are underexposed or underdeveloped or both and there is simply not enough there to work with.

dancqu · Oct 17, 2009

The Color, Brown? Or?

SadChild said:
I've just used a developer created by Patrick Gainer:
Mix 1 tsp (about 3 g) hydroquinone, 1/2 teaspoon ascorbic
acid crystals and 1 tablespoon of sodium carbonate (about 15 g)
in a quart of water."

The color on FB Fomatone MG 132 is great but blacks are not
deep. How to improve them? Thanks in advance.

Is that developer any more than a single agent developer.?
Does the AA do any thing more than act as preservative?
Is a true black even possible using that developer? Dan

Ian Grant · Oct 17, 2009

Try using a normal print developer like Dektol/D72 or Ilford Multigrade/PQ Universal. That developer your using may not work well with that particular paper.

Usually Ascorbic acid replaces the Hydroquinone and Phenidone or Dimezone is used as in Chris Patton's E72.

Ian

SadChild · Oct 17, 2009

tim_bessell said:
Paraphrased from The Darkroom Cookbook:
"highlights are enhanced by the restraining properties of bromide, while blacks become stronger and richer with carbonate".

calling Mr. G

Thanks, Tim. I will try to add more carbonate.

SadChild · Oct 17, 2009

phritz phantom said:
are we talking about positives here?
if your highlights print fine before the blacks are dark enought, your film is most likely underdeveloped. develop (the negative) longer or use a more active developer. on the other hand it could also be a result of severe overexposure (of the film) and normal development.

I meant highlights of a print. It seems that problem in the developer, i was able to print it using Ilford PQ.

SadChild · Oct 17, 2009

dancqu said:
Is that developer any more than a single agent developer.?
Does the AA do any thing more than act as preservative?
Is a true black even possible using that developer? Dan

Dan,

Here is link to the article http://www.unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html
Later in article Patrick Gainer replaces Hydroquinone with Phenidone and metol. But i think that color shift will change and i like the color provided by Hydroquinone version. So i try to find way to improve developer and preserve colors.

SadChild · Oct 17, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Try using a normal print developer like Dektol/D72 or Ilford Multigrade/PQ Universal. That developer your using may not work well with that particular paper.

Usually Ascorbic acid replaces the Hydroquinone and Phenidone or Dimezone is used as in Chris Patton's E72.

Ian

Dektol/D72 or Ilford Multigrade/PQ Universal are not so intresting in print tone as that developer. They give more cool image.

Ian Grant · Oct 17, 2009

SadChild said:
Dektol/D72 or Ilford Multigrade/PQ Universal are not so intresting in print tone as that developer. They give more cool image.

Really I was suggesting seeing if the negatives printed well using a normal developer, at a reasonable contrast setting.

I've used Hydroquinone based warm-tone developers where it's the sole developing agent & found they didn't work well with the Warm-tome papers I was using at the time.

I tend to only use warm-tone developers and use ID-78 which was once Ilford's pre-packed powder commercial Warm-tone paper developer. Ilford Multigrade Warmtone and Agaf Neutol WA are very similar formulae.

Re-reading Patrick Gainer's article he says of that Print developer "Be prepared for strange results", he's not actually put that developer in his conclusions.

Ian

dancqu · Oct 17, 2009

A Lith, Infectious, Type of Development?

Mr. Gainer in his article has indicated a possible
lith type of development. Although I've never
seen it suggested, there is the possibility
that the very little Ascorbic Acid acts
as sulfite does in the more usual
lith developers.

Very interesting I'd say, a substitute for the
sulfite in lith developers. Dan

removed account4 · Oct 17, 2009

double up on the vit C ...
when i was starting off with caffenol C
i used the prescribed amount of vit C ..
my negatives were thin, when i doubled up
my film gained contrast ..
even though this isn't the same thing, i would suggest adding
more ascorbic acid and see what happens.

but what do i know

have fun!
john

Mike1234 · Oct 17, 2009

You could try toning to deepen the blacks a bit. I like Selenium on bromide papers with phenidone developer but I don't know how it will react with your combination. It will definitely change the color.

Martin Aislabie · Oct 18, 2009

SadChild said:
I develop around 4 mins. Thanks for advice i will try doubling.

You may need to apply factoral development to the print process.

Note at what time the image first starts to appear in the developer.

Then multiply that time by 5 or 6 to get a well developed print

There are so may possibilities of the route cause - enough time in the developer is an easy one to eliminate by factoral print development

Martin

dancqu · Oct 18, 2009

A Lith Developer?

Much of this thread's discussion is irrelevant IF the OP
is working with a Lith developer. Mr. Gainers results with
the developer hinted at it's Lith type of development. A slow
start then speedy finish is very typical of Lith development.

So, if of the Lith type; increase contrast by reducing
exposure and increasing development time; 8 to 12
minutes would be entirely reasonable. Dan

Kirk Keyes · Oct 18, 2009

jnanian said:
when i was starting off with caffenol C
i used the prescribed amount of vit C ..
my negatives were thin, when i doubled up
my film gained contrast ..

John - what happens when you leave out the Folgers crystals and just use Vitamin C and carbonate?

How to improve black for the specific developer?

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