How to handle single weight paper?

Dali · Jul 21, 2019

Hi,

I have several boxes of 8x10 simple weight paper (Kodabromide) and I struggle to develop it without creating a mess (marked or torn sheet) as it gets pretty fragile once wet.

Do you use such paper and what is your experience? Positive? Negative?

Thanks!

mrosenlof · Jul 21, 2019

I have only used "single" (auto-correct, I'll bet!) weight paper for prints smaller than 8x10. It's been quite a while since I've used it at all. maybe 15 or 20 years. I typically printed it 3.5 x 5 inch or smaller. Wet prints are considerably easier to handle in the smaller sizes.

Any single weight Kodabromide is going to be awfully old these days. Unless it's been in cold storage, it may never print well.

Dali · Jul 21, 2019

Hi Mike,

You are right, I mean single weight.
Well Kodabromide is several decades old but I try to use for lith printing so age is less a problem than handling actually!

ic-racer · Jul 21, 2019

Use two hands, hold it by two adjacent corners at a time.

removed account4 · Jul 21, 2019

Hi Dali
What kind of tongs are you using or are you using a nitril gloved hand ? I've printed on upto 11x14 single weight paper ( it ws grade 2+3 kodabromide ) as well as 8x10 ( and smaller) azo and hand coated really really thin stuff. The trick that I found is to have enough fluid in your trays and to use 1 corner. If I am using hands I sort of hold/support the paper from underneath. Maybe have been lucky all these times, but I never creased or bent or folded anything.
Do you have a print or 2 that is curently problematic ? Maybe you can practice your handling technique with them until you figure out
your own magic. I loved that paper, blacks were like ink...
Good Luck !
John

Ko.Fe. · Jul 21, 2019

I printed on old, single weight FB 8x10 paper. Several decades old. I print more on paper like this, because I simply can't afford new FB paper.
It wasn't Kodak, but AGFA or at least this is what was on the box.
It was curling badly and hard to fish out from the tray. But not fragile.
I guess, it might become, if left in developer for long (lith).

Dali · Jul 21, 2019

jnantz said:
Hi Dali
What kind of tongs are you using or are you using a nitril gloved hand ? I've printed on upto 11x14 single weight paper ( it ws grade 2+3 kodabromide ) as well as 8x10 ( and smaller) azo and hand coated really really thin stuff. The trick that I found is to have enough fluid in your trays and to use 1 corner. If I am using hands I sort of hold/support the paper from underneath. Maybe have been lucky all these times, but I never creased or bent or folded anything.
Do you have a print or 2 that is curently problematic ? Maybe you can practice your handling technique with them until you figure out
your own magic. I loved that paper, blacks were like ink...
Good Luck !
John

Hi John,

I use metal tongs but I could use disposable gloves if it can help. Usually I flip the prints several times in each bath. Now, I can rock the trays instead but I still need to catch the print at one point to transfer it from one bath to the next... I shall try soon to improve my technique!

John51 · Jul 21, 2019

You could try single tray printing. You won't need to handle the print until it goes into the washer.

Steve Goldstein · Jul 21, 2019

You'll probably be better off using gloved fingers than using tongs. When you pick up the paper use two fingers only, thumb and forefinger. The risk of creasing is minimized that way, three fingers almost guarantees you'll get a crease.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 21, 2019

Like John said above, I use one tong at a corner. Don't push the paper under or anything. Slide it in.

It is too bad no one makes single weight paper anymore.

mooseontheloose · Jul 21, 2019

I would stop flipping it (or only do so once, after it's been saturated with developer) and use your hands as suggested above. When I do lith I always use nitrile gloves since tongs can damage even regular papers (I dump the gloves after each print to avoid contamination on the prints). I've used single weight papers before, but they were all 8x10 or less in size so I haven't really experienced this problem.

Smudger · Jul 21, 2019

Strong support for John 51 here. It is possible to take the print through to ,and including, final wash without touching it once.

NedL · Jul 21, 2019

Patrick Robert James said:
Like John said above, I use one tong at a corner. Don't push the paper under or anything. Slide it in.

It is too bad no one makes single weight paper anymore.

+1 I've processed quite a bit of single weight paper using single tray processing. At the end I lift it out with wearing nitrile gloves holding two corners. Never had any folds or tears or problems ( except it can be hard to press it flat after it dries! ) I also wish there was a source of single weight papers...

mshchem · Jul 21, 2019

John51 said:
You could try single tray printing. You won't need to handle the print until it goes into the washer.

+1

Dali · Jul 22, 2019

John51 said:
You could try single tray printing. You won't need to handle the print until it goes into the washer.

You mean to empty and fill one tray only from the begining to the end of the process?

removed account4 · Jul 22, 2019

Dali said:
Hi John,

I use metal tongs but I could use disposable gloves if it can help. Usually I flip the prints several times in each bath. Now, I can rock the trays instead but I still need to catch the print at one point to transfer it from one bath to the next... I shall try soon to improve my technique!

Dali
Sounds good !
What size tray do you use? Sometimes a bigger tray with plenty of fluid in it makes it easier so the print doesnt' stick to the bottom of the tray. If you use disposable gloves make sure you don't contaminate going backwards, rinse them off from time to time and hold the print by a short side corner, it might make things easier than the long side. I always flip a print 5 or 6 times as soon as it goes in the developer so it gets evenly saturated, then face up and rock the tray... have fun !
john

Dali · Jul 22, 2019

13in x 18in trays with at least 1/2 gallon of fluid (usually a little more).

John51 · Jul 22, 2019

Dali said:
You mean to empty and fill one tray only from the begining to the end of the process?

Yes. Chems in separate containers. Paper in tray, pour in dev. Empty tray back into dev container, pour in stop etc.

The choice of container matters. Under safelight, I found it all too easy to pour back into the container too fast, causing a spill.

jvo · Jul 22, 2019

"back-in-the day", i used kodabromide, single weight... with the same 6 8x10 plastic trays and lpl metal tongs i use today - about 32 oz of chemicals in each tray and only 8x10 paper. something when paper was at the bottom of the chemicals, i had to be careful lifting the print because of the water adhesion(?), which is also true for double weight.

i was very "respectful and careful" not to scratch the paper and pick it up and never had a problem. the only difference i can think of is the age of the paper, could that be a big difference?

Dali · Jul 22, 2019

John51 said:
Yes. Chems in separate containers. Paper in tray, pour in dev. Empty tray back into dev container, pour in stop etc.

The choice of container matters. Under safelight, I found it all too easy to pour back into the container too fast, causing a spill.

Wouldn't be practical for lith printing as development has the stop pretty quickly. Time to pour back the dev in its container and to fill the tray with stop bath and the print is ruined.

Luckless · Jul 22, 2019

Dali said:
Wouldn't be practical for lith printing as development has the stop pretty quickly. Time to pour back the dev in its container and to fill the tray with stop bath and the print is ruined.

Use a dump-tank/tray in tray or other style. Nothing says you have to slowly and carefully pour the dev back into a small necked vessel, you just need the dev OUT of the tray, ideally without splashing over everything, so you can begin dumping stop bath over it.

I've seen one large format printer on YouTube with a neat looking two-section tray. A large deep angled gutter ran along one edge. A light tilt to the tray would send chemistry into the gutter, and setting the tray level let you dump the next chem right in. Drain the gutter through a spigot, and hopefully remember to close said spigot before your next swap...

With a bit of care and creativity there are several ways you can swap chemistry in a single tray faster than you could pick up and move fussy paper between them.

How to handle single weight paper?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency