How to get large grain with c41 images?

aatonpanavision · Jan 16, 2009

Hi, for a while now I have been trying to figure out how to emulate a certain photographic look that was popular in the late 80s and early 90s. The "look" involves extremely large grain particles on the picture.
It has a sort of soft look and feels very dream like. Here is a link to an image that has the same feel, though I think it's actually due to a bad scan of the image, it's the closet example on the internet I could find:
http://flickr.com/photos/zecalifairy/2785753449/

In my color photography book, it showed this "look" and said some photographers liked the look of 1000 speed slide film. Problem is, they don't make it anymore and also I can only print on c41. My plan was to try and shoot on 1600 color film and enlarge a portion of the image big enough to where you could start to see the grain's 3 primary colors (i think that's what a color image consists of)

Any suggestions? Insights?

accozzaglia · Jan 19, 2009

That particular grain pattern has a hashing effect, which makes me wonder if it had more to do with the developing technique. In any matter, 3M Scotchchrome 1000 was discontinued in 1989 or so. Jody Dole used a final batch he bought to exceptional effect in the 1990s. The only C-41 film I've used with exceptionally large grain is also no longer to be had. I've also not seen it on eBay in the last year I've kept my eye out for it. But Konica SR-G 3200 was unquestionably in that vein of heavy-grain C-41. Back then, Konica produced one coating run every year or two, and once it was gone, you had to wait until the next go-round. IF there was a C-41 I loved, that would have been the one.

Two samples from my work back when I bought a couple of rolls in 1998. Neither were pushed. Both were shot at ISO3200:
Frontline Fury
Vinyl Reflections

Perhaps you can try finding an 800-speed emulsion and push it two stops to see what it yields. Not sure which to recommend these days, since I very rarely use C-41 lines anymore.

mabman · Jan 19, 2009

I had some fairly grainy results with Provia 400X (35mm) cross-processed, shot at 400 ISO. I think I tossed my examples, though - I didn't care for the grain, personally.

You might want to try Provia 400X cross-processed *and* pushed a couple of stops - I would imagine that would exaggerate things even further.

Neal · Jan 20, 2009

Dear aatonpanavision,

It looks as though it may have been printed using a screen. FWIW, an easy path to ridiculous grain is purchasing old 800 speed film on ebay.

Neal Wydra

aatonpanavision · Jan 20, 2009

thanks for the info. accozzaglia, those images do represent the effect I'm trying to get. if that was 3200, surely, 1600 pushed a stop could yield something similar - i wish they'd stop improving the quality of high speed film. I'm also going to look into the old 800 film, I'm staying away from cross processed film just because it can be inconsistent, more of a last resort kind of option.

OldBikerPete · Jan 21, 2009

I would try making a screen by contact-exposing a high ASA B&W positive film but at low exposure. After developing that positive you would print the two sandwiched together. It would need some playing around with exposure and development of the mask to get the contrast trade-offs right and you may need to space the mask away from your c-41 neg. a tad so that it is slightly off-focus.

nworth · Jan 21, 2009

Basically, you don't. Your best bet is to use high speed film and either use a wide angle lens or stand back from the subject, then enlarge a lot. But with enlargement, you also lose some definition in the picture. Another possibility is to scan the negative and use one or more of the available filters for Photoshop to get a more or less equivalent effect. Just about any color film you can get these days has very fine grain, and when you do see it, it looks mushy, not sharp. From my little experience with them, Fuji films seem to have somewhat sharper grain than Kodak films.

P C Headland · Jan 21, 2009

You could also try a smaller format - something like a Pentax 110 SLR maybe or a Minox 8x11 camera.

Other than that, some expired film, or pushing film a couple of stops or manipulating the image in the printing stage.

azza · Jan 26, 2009

I underexposed some 100iso Fuji reala, then pushed it a fair bit in post here. Could probably bring out the grain alot more too, but the downside is that you start to see every little scratch and imperfection on teh negative.

*EDIT- I've now noticed that the photo looks very different on certain monitors. Some will show it as a sligtly blurry image, some show the grain as being very pronounced. I just have a digital print of it which turned out nice though. Bit of a lucky dip it seems =/

nickrapak · Jan 27, 2009

You want coarse grain, use Kodak Max 800 1st generation, 5-6 years expired, stored at room temp. The grain was as big as basketballs!

How to get large grain with c41 images?

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