How to get good skin tones in B&W?

vdonovan · Mar 12, 2008

Hi folks, this is one of those questions that doesn't really have an answer, but I'd love to hear other opinions and experiences.

I have been shooting and printing B&W portraits lately and I find I'm not happy with the skin tones I'm getting. They seem to be either washed out or too grey. If I bump up the contrast, they look washed out. If I drop the contrast they look grey.

When I look at a test strip, I can pick the right exposures for the clothes and backdrop but the skin just never seems to look right.

For the record, I'm shooting Tri-X at EI 200, processed in Xtol 1:2. I'm printing on Ilford MGIV RC.

Any tips, guidelines, experiences on printing a good portrait skin tone?

aparat · Mar 12, 2008

I also use Tri-X at EI200 in D-76 as my primary film/developer combo. What works for me is spot metering off the subject's face and overexposing by 1/2 stop for subjects with light skin and underexposing by 1/2 stop for darker skin tones. I process the negative normally.

aparat

JRJacobs · Mar 13, 2008

I shoot alot of portraits professionally. To get good skin tones with black and white film for caucasians and asians, I don't spot measure - I use an incident meter and take the reading right at the nose of the subject. Then I open up 1 whole stop. This makes for very even looking skin tones.

I use FP4+ generally for this technique, and it prints very nicely without any further need for contrast filters when using MG paper.

For african americans and other dark skin, use the actual incident measurement for exposure.

JBrunner · Mar 13, 2008

You might consider trying a yellow filter.

Ian Tindale · Mar 13, 2008

"African americans"? What on earth is that?

Dave Miller · Mar 13, 2008

JBrunner said:
You might consider trying a yellow filter.

Or even a green one ;but only for monochrome film.

waileong · Mar 13, 2008

Tri-X has so much exposure latitude it's not going to make a difference if your exposure is 1 or 2 stops over. Underexposure would be a problem. I'll assume you know how to check whether your negs are correctly exposed, and whether they are are too dense (ie overdeveloped).

If your skin tones don't look good, it's a question of paper exposure and contrast. And perhaps whether you have any light leaks in your darkroom, whether your safelight is really safe, and whether your chemicals are fresh.

Shelly Grimson · Mar 13, 2008

Mr. Tindale, I'll be brief. For an example of an Afro- American google the Democratic Party's nominee for president of the United States. His name is Obama and he's not a 'what' but a 'who'. And a mighty one at that!

Eric Rose · Mar 13, 2008

Try Ilford XP2

Gary Holliday · Mar 13, 2008

Check that you are taking an exposure for the face and make a test strip for the skin tone during printing.

So is no-one just American or are they born somewhere between Africa and America?

RobC · Mar 13, 2008

which tri-x, 400 or 320 because they are very different films. the 320 has an upswept curve giving greater contrast in the highlights than in the mid and lower tones. The 400 has a much straighter curve onece it comes off the toe.
The old plus-x (no longer available ) was very popular for portraits.
The current plus-x has a long toe and different spectral sensitivity. I know it's slower but try some. It may be what you are looking for.

vdonovan · Mar 14, 2008

Thanks for the feedback, friends. I'm using Tri-X 400 at EI 200.

I normally spot meter the forehead and expose 1 stop under (zone VI for you crazies out there) for Caucasians (or Euro-Americans). (I'm Mexican-American, BTW, which means 1/2 stop. Go Obama!).

I used a green filter on the last shoot because the subject had quite blotchy skin. This is maybe the problem because it seems to have evened her skin tones *too* much. It's hard to print them with any detail. I'll try some experiments with light green or yellow filters.

Thanks again for your comments

Absinthe · Mar 14, 2008

Ian Tindale said:
"African americans"? What on earth is that?

I believe a more accurate term may be "Ethnic Africans"

It is funny how politically charged such a term is. Most of the "African Americans" I know refer to themselves as "Black"

I have to share the story of when I worked in the psych field and I was workin in a residential facility with emotionally disturbed youths. One day, there was an issue of a person that stopped in their car and spoke with one of the kids. This was very uncommon, and in general got some people quite upset.

So there was an investigation and one of the other kids that saw it, was telling his story, and when he was asked to describe the car, he said it was an "African American" car. I apologize ahead of time for what I immediately pictured as a White on White Cadillac with Red leather interior, followed by a largish fellow with a feathery hat and a beaver coat.... But maybe that is from watching too much "Baretta" as a kid. In my defense, I was not the only one that thought that.

After pushing the issue, we finally got the point, that the car was actually "black" but at age 7 this kid just thought that was a bad word, and should be replaced with "African American" in all cases...

JBrunner · Mar 14, 2008

I prefer to refer to American citizens as "Americans".

I don't give a rats a$$ where your daddy is from, what color your skin is (unless it's a palor that indicates a need for medical attention), or who you %^@*. You don't see me running around insisting that I be called a "Norwegermanic American"

It is a charged issue. I wish it would just move on, but I guess there's still a fair amount of bunched up underwear around......

RobC · Mar 14, 2008

vdonovan said:
I normally spot meter the forehead and expose 1 stop under (zone VI for you crazies out there) for Caucasians (or Euro-Americans). (I'm Mexican-American, BTW, which means 1/2 stop. Go Obama!).

I hope you meant 1 stop over...

naaldvoerder · Mar 14, 2008

JBrunner said:
I prefer to refer to American citizens as "Americans".

I don't give a rats a$$ where your daddy is from, what color your skin is (unless it's a palor that indicates a need for medical attention), or who you %^@*. You don't see me running around insisting that I be called a "Norwegermanic American"

It is a charged issue. I wish it would just move on, but I guess there's still a fair amount of bunched up underwear around......

This might be the way to go in all aspects of live, however since b&w film notices the difference between light and dark skin, where the mind doesn't, in photography there might be a reason to make a difference

Jaap Jan

JBrunner · Mar 14, 2008

naaldvoerder said:
This might be the way to go in all aspects of live, however since b&w film notices the difference between light and dark skin, where the mind doesn't, in photography there might be a reason to make a difference

Jaap Jan

My mind notices skin color, it just doesn't say a great deal to me about a person, so for me, at that point, you are a meat popsicle with a tonal value.

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2008

it doesn't matter what color skin you locked in, just knuckle down and love that skin

palm of anyone's hand is 2 stops from neutral grey if you don't have a grey card ...

vdonovan · Mar 14, 2008

Hi Rob, you're right. 1 Stop over. 1 stop under would make Caucasians look like African-Americans.

Someone over on Rangefinder Forum suggested that if you use the palm of your hand as an exposure guide, you should tattoo on it the words "Don't forget to open up one stop."

Pride of heritage has always been a part of American life. Every bar in my city right now is plastered with tacky St. Patrick's Day decorations. Does Chicago still dye its river green? We have a Japantown, a Little Saigon, TWO Chinatowns and a touristy Italian neighborhood. They all have festivals and feast days with parades, speeches and dancing schoolchildren. I've never been to Minnesota, but the characters in Garison Keillor's radio show The Prairie Home Companion are forever celebrating the birthday of St. Olaf. Was there really a St. Olaf?

Fortunately America is a big and fluid place. If you want to get excited about your heritage, you can. If you want to ignore it, you can. If you want to get excited about your heritage, or someone else's heritage, for only one night in hopes of some free drinks (both St. Patrick's Day and Cinco de Mayo are good for this), you can.

JBrunner · Mar 14, 2008

vdonovan said:
Pride of heritage has always been a part of American life. Every bar in my city right now is plastered with tacky St. Patrick's Day decorations. Does Chicago still dye its river green? We have a Japantown, a Little Saigon, TWO Chinatowns and a touristy Italian neighborhood. They all have festivals and feast days with parades, speeches and dancing schoolchildren. I've never been to Minnesota, but the characters in Garison Keillor's radio show The Prairie Home Companion are forever celebrating the birthday of St. Olaf. Was there really a St. Olaf?

Fortunately America is a big and fluid place. If you want to get excited about your heritage, you can. If you want to ignore it, you can. If you want to get excited about your heritage, or someone else's heritage, for only one night in hopes of some free drinks (both St. Patrick's Day and Cinco de Mayo are good for this), you can.

I personally enjoy Cinco de Mayo. Its commin up. P A R T Y ! !

JRJacobs · Mar 14, 2008

JBrunner said:
I prefer to refer to American citizens as "Americans".

I understand what you are saying - but for the original question of exposing for skin tones, one has to make a distinction between different colors of skin, as exposure/printing is different for each type - and as you well know, there is not such a thing as "American" skin color. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers in my post, but really there should be nothing offensive about it.

JBrunner · Mar 14, 2008

JRJacobs said:
I understand what you are saying - but for the original question of exposing for skin tones, one has to make a distinction between different colors of skin, as exposure/printing is different for each type - and as you well know, there is not such a thing as "American" skin color. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers in my post, but really there should be nothing offensive about it.

No, not offensive at all. I'm just making some observations in regard to our pre-occupation with labels. Calling dark skin dark or light skin light is a matter of fact. Has nothing to do with the need or desire of some persons to assign themselves or others a special label in regard to their skin color. I enjoy my heritage and culture and the richness and beauty of other heritage and culture. I just don't like arbitrary labels that don't really say or accomplish anything. But like I said, lots of bunched panties all around, so until they un-bunch I guess the best course is to smile and nod allot.

It's just one more stupid PC thing everybody has to tiptoe around so as not to wind up with their own label.

dpurdy · Mar 14, 2008

I have never been sure whether Afirican Americans like to be called that or would they prefer to be referred to as black when making the distinction. In my experience Native Americans tend to call themselves Indians. In any case America is all about rights of the individual and minority group and so distinctions are a matter of pride.

I have been printing a black and white wedding the last couple of days on 35mm Tmax 400 and it is complete crap. I hate 35mm. Not only do the skin tones suck but pretty much everything does. Beautiful skin tones are made using MF and Acros. And avoiding shooting white people in sunshine or black people in shade.

noseoil · Mar 14, 2008

I was corrected by a Native American this summer about the use of the word Indian. There are now two uses, Dot Indian and Feather Indian. Go figure. tim

Bobby Ironsights · Mar 20, 2008

Dodging and burning. Dodging and Burning.

How to get good skin tones in B&W?

vdonovan

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