How to decide radius and place of drilled aperture at f:64 and f:16

Chiaro o scuro?

D
Chiaro o scuro?

  • 0
  • 0
  • 206
sdeeR

D
sdeeR

  • 3
  • 1
  • 241
Rouse St

A
Rouse St

  • 1
  • 0
  • 263
Untitled

A
Untitled

  • 3
  • 2
  • 302

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
199,199
Messages
2,787,730
Members
99,835
Latest member
Onap
Recent bookmarks
0
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
4,829
Location
İstanbul
Format
35mm
I have a heavy weight champion Ektar and I want to place a drilled circular plate aperture in behind of lens. There is a rim at back of the lens and plate could be put in place flat and tight. But I read many times , place of aperture used to control aberrations. If I put it , does it kill the qualities of the lens ?
And How to decide the radius of the drill ?

Umut
 

peter k.

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
1,404
Location
Sedona Az.
Format
Multi Format
The way I understand it, (I'm just a newbie in this, and have been waiting for others to reply) to get the radius of the hole, one must take the Focal Length of the lens, and divide it by the F aperture wanted. That is the radius of the hole.
For the smaller F stops that I have made, (out of black matte board) I have used leather hole punches.
 

cowanw

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Hamilton, On
Format
Large Format
The way I understand it, (I'm just a newbie in this, and have been waiting for others to reply) to get the radius of the hole, one must take the Focal Length of the lens, and divide it by the F aperture wanted. That is the radius of the hole.
For the smaller F stops that I have made, (out of black matte board) I have used leather hole punches.

That's what the diameter (not radius) of the hole should be (viewed through the lens).
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,835
Format
Multi Format
it depends on the focal length of the lens

Design, John, not focal length. Most of my lenses' diaphragms are somewhere between the lenses' front and rear elements but my 200/4 MicroNikkor AIS' diaphragm is behind its rear element.
 

oldlincoln

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
115
Location
Wichita, KS
Format
Medium Format
Like a waterhouse stop?

The aperture (diaphragm or fixed stop) is usually placed at the center nodal point of the lens. Does this Ektar not have a diaphragm?
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
Design, John, not focal length. Most of my lenses' diaphragms are somewhere between the lenses' front and rear elements but my 200/4 MicroNikkor AIS' diaphragm is behind its rear element.


hey dan, i figured, since everyone else was responding to that aspect of umut's ( placement ) question
( and since i am clueless in placement, except for a meniscus' aperture being infront of the lens LOL :smile: )
he still didn't know how to determine the correct hole/diameter for his aperture ...
and there really isn't an answer seeing he didn't tell us the focal length ..

maybe i should have been more concise in my non-answer :tongue:

i was going to say the aperture(hole size) / focal length = f#
but seeing he didn't provide us with any focal length information it was impossible to
give him an actual number / size to drill his holes :smile: so i opted-out
instead of confusing him with made up focal lengths and diameters ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,835
Format
Multi Format
John, IIRC the OP has posted about having a 111/1.5 Fluoro Ektar. For general photographic purposes, a pig's ear, not a silk purse. I don't know whether the OP is a devout Muslim; some Turks are, others aren't. If he is I can't imagine how he forces himself to touch it.

Mustafa, I don't need or want to know about your religious beliefs. There's no reason for you to tell the world about them. The less said, the better.

He's asking for help in the wrong place. People who follow the APUG forums are for the most part interested in using film and in taking pictures, not in adapting unsuitable lenses to their cameras. I don't follow DPUG, such types might hang out there.

I'm sure he'd get better advice on www.mflenses.com. People who hang out there get their jollies from hanging all sorts of unlikely lenses in front of tiny chip digicams. One of them may even have done what he's inquiring about.

However, they usually try to shoot fast lenses wide open. Stopping a great heavy fast lens well stopped down defeats the lens' purpose.

Cheers,

Dan
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
thanks dan
i didn't know about the lens, the OP is on my I-L so i missed his previous posts

- john
 

Denverdad

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
316
Location
Superior, Co
Format
Medium Format
I have a heavy weight champion Ektar and I want to place a drilled circular plate aperture in behind of lens. There is a rim at back of the lens and plate could be put in place flat and tight. But I read many times , place of aperture used to control aberrations. If I put it , does it kill the qualities of the lens ?
And How to decide the radius of the drill ?

Umut

Umut, this is actually a rather interesting question. A thought experiment occurs to me which may be useful. The starting point is to realize that lens aberrations are typically at their worst with the lens wide open, and stopping down from there tends to reduce them and improve the overall image quality (up to diffractive limitations, at least) due to clipping of marginal rays. With the internal iris wide and an additional aperture behind the lens, the overall effect is still the clipping of marginal rays - but you are just not doing it as efficiently. Another way to picture it is that if the aperture you place behind the lens just meets the edge of the light cone which would have resulted from using a particular setting of the internal iris, then you are working at that same f/#. But the set of marginal rays you are blocking may be slightly different - some of the marginal rays that would have been stopped by the internal iris may now make it through the rear aperture, and consequently you would get slightly more aberration in the image. So based on this, I would think that at any particular f/# the aberrations for the rear stop configuration will likely be somewhat greater than if the internal adjustable iris were used, but I don't think it could be any worse than what you would get with the lens wide open. If that thinking is correct, it at least bounds the problem.

All of the above relates only to the 7 classical lens aberrations. Another image characteristic to consider is vignetting, and you can expect that you will only get more of it due to the rear aperture placement. This can be minimized by placing the aperture stop as close as possible to the rear of the lens assembly. It depends on how much of the lens's native image circle you really need to work with too, so hopefully it will be a pretty minor effect for you. Another factor to consider is stray light. With the aperture stop at the "wrong" location for the lens, you may also find increased flare in your images. As always, using a lens hood may help.

When it comes to calculating the hole size needed for a given f/# for a rear aperture, I think it is actually very easy. Thinking of the cone of light reaching image plane and considering that there are no intervening optics, the f/# must be just = L/d (where L is the distance between the physical aperture and the focal plane, and d is the diameter of the hole). This gives a different result than the usual f/# = f/d equation (where f is the focal length of the lens). I claim that this equation doesn't work here because the "d" in that equation is technically the diameter of the entrance aperture of the lens, not the diameter of the physical hole you are placing there. They are not the same in this case. I have encountered this discrepancy before, for example in working with and modifying Holga cameras. In fact, quite a few people seem to be off by about one stop in their estimation of what the Holga's "real" f/# is, or in their calculation of the new f/# when they modify their camera; and I think this is the reason.

Anyway, I hope that is helpful. Good luck!

Jeff
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format
He's asking for help in the wrong place. People who follow the APUG forums are for the most part interested in using film and in taking pictures, not in adapting unsuitable lenses to their cameras. I don't follow DPUG, such types might hang out there.

Dan

This thread seems to be in Camera Building, repairs & MODIFICATION.
Where else should it go?
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,835
Format
Multi Format
This thread seems to be in Camera Building, repairs & MODIFICATION.
Where else should it go?
John, APUG activists are kind, friendly and eager to help. Unfortunately they don't play with lenses such as the OP has.

Activists on the forum I directed the OP to are also kind, friendly and eager to help. They play quite a lot with lenses like the one the OP wants to modify. They're more nearly the specialists he needs than Apuggers are.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom