How to deal with photography deniers?

Dali · Mar 25, 2019

I recently participated to a local photography contest and went to the closing ceremony to hear one of the judges motivating their choice.

After listening to what I consider a speech full of BS, someone asked the judge if we knew if these pictures were digital or analog. The answer was “all digital” despite the fact that I submitted 4 analog pictures…

A mistake is always possible but what I heard next was not an error. The “judge” carried on by saying that film photography was over, a legacy of a bygone era and if it were still used, it is only by “purists”… The way I heard that, “purist” was clearly for him the equivalent of “retarded” or “snobs”...

Apart from that, I have mostly good experiences when I shoot outside, especially with TLR, don’t ask me why… The same day but hours apart, my Rolleicord was noticed by a Chinese grandpa who worked in a camera shop in Hong Kong decades ago and a tramp who remembered the time he was shooting film in high school. Both got the camera wrong by confusing it with a Rolleiflex but it is pretty understandable. Each time, it had been ths subject of a little chat.

pbromaghin · Mar 25, 2019

I find that the reaction depends on the camera. With 35mm slr, its just like the original post and some people even act like I'm an old fool who can't handle a digital camera. With a Zeiss folder, they have no idea what it is and often give confused looks, but rarely say anything. When shooting a Mamiya tlr, people give LOTS of comments about what a cool camera it is, act as if I really know photography and ask respectful questions. What's really weird is that these can happen just minutes apart because I carry a backpack and might switch formats.

John51 · Mar 25, 2019

Pioneer said:
Most people react very positively to the TLR and I am not really sure why, but it is neat.

My guess is that they saw TLRs at weddings they attended. For many, that would be the only professional camera they'd be photographed with.

Fin · Mar 25, 2019

BradS said:
I often go out with a 35mm SLR around my neck. By now I am well accustomed to complete strangers asking all manner of questions...as I'm sure all of you are too...
"Is that a film Camera?"
"Can you still get film for that?"

It's not happened to me yet, but I'm secretly hoping someone comes up to me and asks question #2, to which I will reply "Erm, oh. Actually, I dunno…" and then walk off.

The last couple of memorable commenters I had were:

A Latvian Uber driver who correctly identified my Kiev 4M in it's never-ready case, and told me he had one back home. Chatted a bit about lenses and different modern films, he said he should get his sent over and start using it again.

And, on my Norway holiday last year, a retired Slovakian Doctor who noticed my Bronica SQ and still had but no longer used some old Minolta gear.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 25, 2019

BradS said:
I often go out with a 35mm SLR around my neck. By now I am well accustomed to complete strangers asking all manner of questions...as I'm sure all of you are too...
"Is that a film Camera?"
"Can you still get film for that?"
"Is that a black and white camera?" ---- yes, people really ask me this.
"Why don't you go digital?"

I occasionally get the devout digital imager that, essentially, informs me that they went digital, I should too, I'm dumb if don't ...but this doesn't really seem to happen too much any more.

This past weekend I experienced a new one...I was out in the woods and a digital imager confronted me. He asserted (wasn't asking but telling ) that...
"You cannot get film for that anymore."
"You cannot get it processed anymore."

I was just so blown away, I didn't even know what to say....I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "good to know. Thanks." and walked away.

Tell them, no, you can;t get film. You're using an empty film camera to practice aiming.

BrianShaw · Mar 25, 2019

Yuck, yuck, yuck.

Kodachromeguy · Mar 25, 2019

Dali said:
The “judge” carried on by saying that film photography was over, a legacy of a bygone era and if it were still used, it is only by “purists”… The way I heard that, “purist” was clearly for him the equivalent of “retarded” or “snobs”...

That sounds like one of the "photographers" or "experts" on the infamous Dpreview. Any article about film, monochrome from any media, manual focus, Leica, or medium format sets them off on orgasmic frenzies of trolling and derision.

Photo Chemist · Mar 25, 2019

Vaughn said:
I had my 11x14 set up in a canyon, a half-mile or so from the parking lot. "Can you still get film for that?" An innocent question, but one is still tempted to say, "No. I just like looking at the ground glass." Instead I say, "Yes, would you like to look thru the camera?"

PS -- there are black and white digital cameras...some with IR sensitivity.

That's so cool of you! If that were me, whom had asked you, I would have LOVED to have looked through it!

Honestly, before hanging out on here and learning more about large format cameras - that could have been me. I had no idea - and now still very little idea - about large format cameras and how they work. So, I think your approach is wonderful.

Photo Chemist · Mar 25, 2019

Pioneer said:
The only times I get any people approaching me while out and about is when I am carrying my Rolleiflex (or in my case lately, my Ikoflex.) That is when I have had a few odd encounters including a wonderful older woman who was thrilled and wanted to take some pictures with my camera right on the spot. Evidently she had used a Rolleiflex professionally in her prior years.

I let her take a couple of shots and she did recognize that the camera was not a Rolleiflex. I think she was a little disappointed but when I explained that at my age the Ikoflex was much easier to focus she seemed satisfied.

Most people react very positively to the TLR and I am not really sure why, but it is neat.

DWThomas said:
This has been my experience also. I guess partly it's more obviously an older camera -- at ten yards, the difference between a Canon EOS 3 and an EOS 80D is not that obvious unless the photographer is chimping. I've had a number of interesting conversations with strangers while traipsing around with my Yashica 124G.

A year or so back I was finishing off a roll in my Ercona II folder, working along a local rail trail. A young kid whizzed by, trailed by his dad who promptly called him back and brought him over as he told the kid "now there is a REAL camera!"

I've had the same experience with my YashicaMat 124G. Last summer while in Laguna Beach watching a sunset, a man approached me extremely interested in the TLR. He was really excited to see one and was going to tell his wife about the TLR and how I developed the film in my kitchen (darkbag). She had apparently been quite the photographer when she was younger and he was hoping to get her back into it. I hope he did go home and tell her...

faberryman · Mar 25, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
That sounds like one of the "photographers" or "experts" on the infamous Dpreview. Any article about film, monochrome from any media, manual focus, Leica, or medium format sets them off on orgasmic frenzies of trolling and derision.

Never see any of that around here. Say in this thread?

removed account4 · Mar 25, 2019

Ariston said:
I am always nice and try to win people over. We need more people using film... the younger the better.

+1

paulbarden said:
I like your attitude. There's no point to responding with a snarky reply that only makes people feel bad for asking a simple question. It seems to me that if someone asks "can you still get film for that?" then they are genuinely curious about what you are doing, and why. I prefer to share with people why I choose to work with technology that many find pointless or obsolete. Its a teachable moment, as they say.

+1

Vaughn · Mar 25, 2019

Photo Chemist said:
That's so cool of you! If that were me, whom had asked you, I would have LOVED to have looked through it!....

Even cooler when dads lift their kids up to see the GG.

awty · Mar 25, 2019

Vaughn said:
Even cooler when dads lift their kids up to see the GG.

But the video screen is upside down!

Ko.Fe. · Mar 25, 2019

Is something wrong with this thread title? Shouldn't it be - how to deal film photography deniers?

As of now the title of this thread is just as hostile as people saying - move from film to digital.
If OP really thinks film is somewhat more related to photography than digital... Then...
Both sides are deniers. One side denies film, another digital.

John Koehrer · Mar 25, 2019

awty said:
But the video screen is upside down!

Turn the camera over

awty · Mar 25, 2019

John Koehrer said:
Turn the camera over

I've tied it, doesnt work.

silveror0 · Mar 25, 2019

Seldom happens to me, as I'm usually photographing where nobody is near - can be distracting. But one occurrence a few years ago comes to mind. I was working with my 50yo Sinar Norma 4x5 at a massive frozen waterfall and had no choice but to be in the midst of many other folks at a safe viewpoint. It was shoulder-to-shoulder, like opening day of trout season. I heard a woman's pleasant voice behind me (with I think a German accent) ask what kind of camera I was using. My brief answer was "It's Swiss." Her response was a reverent "Oooooh!" and then called to her husband to "come look at this REAL camera" and started off to join him. He never showed up. After I made my exposures, I noticed a young teenager with his digi standing next to me. He just said "Wow!." Then I was approached by a father and his small boy, who handed my plexi ground glass protector that I didn't notice had dropped; father said "I think you dropped this." I thanked him kindly and started packing my gear up to leave.

BrianShaw · Mar 25, 2019

awty said:
I've tied it, doesnt work.

Then try standing on your head.

Poisson Du Jour · Mar 25, 2019

The disparaging, snobbish attitudes toward analogue photographers is one that is entrenched in amateur/hobbyist/enthusiast followers of digital photography, and there is no shortage of these types. A digital camera has something of an aura, an amazing power and prestige to them, and one that seemingly puts them above other photographers and their methods — but, a-ha, not others' skills and experience! When I'm working on-loc, these mealy-mouthed nuisances are simply ignored — I do not have the time nor inclination to entertain terrestrial trolls. I have yet to be bad-mouthed by a professional, digital or otherwise, and these hard-working, studious practitioners stand out with consummate grace and courtesy in busy situations, and we often talk about our respective equipment and production methods while waiting for better light, or for crowds to disperse or for the rain to stop.

BrianShaw · Mar 25, 2019

Poisson Du Jour said:
The disparaging, snobbish attitudes toward analogue photographers is one that is entrenched in amateur/hobbyist/enthusiast followers of digital photography, and there is no shortage of these types. A digital camera has something of an aura, an amazing power and prestige to them, and one that seemingly puts them above other photographers and their methods — but, a-ha, not others' skills and experience! When I'm working on-loc, these mealy-mouthed nuisances are simply ignored — I do not have the time nor inclination to entertain terrestrial trolls. I have yet to be bad-mouthed by a professional, digital or otherwise, and these hard-working, studious practitioners stand out with consummate grace and courtesy in busy situations, and we often talk about our respective equipment and production methods while waiting for better light, or for crowds to disperse or for the rain to stop.

A very impressively stated thought.

But...

Doesn’t this thought also make a lot of sense if you swap the words “digital” and “analogue”?

Poisson Du Jour · Mar 25, 2019

BrianShaw said:
A very impressively stated thought.

But...

Doesn’t this thought also make a lot of sense if you swap the words “digital” and “analogue”?

Yes, Brian. I'm reminded that, for decades now, I have been pestered by a big-town LF photographer who has constantly looked on with disdain at the fact that I have adhered, firstly to 35mm, and latterly to medium format. He has never looked into the facts and reasoning of my direction, nor the sheer size and breadth of my printing, compared to his own. In a nutshell, he wants to me "leave behind" all those "nursery formats" and go to LF. This, from he who prints from LF nothing bigger than a 15x15cm print (I once suggested in retort that he pick up a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye if he is never going to print anything of considerable size). He did not take kindly when I bumped into him slinging a Fuji X-T100 ("because I can!"), and upon seeing this, it was on again for young and old: LF snobbery at its very finest! No surprise then that I keep my distance from him and avoid all conversation and imprints he puts on the web about the superiority of LF over any other (analogue) format.

So yes, it goes both ways, and fortunately this is the only one that I can readily recall off the top of my head.

Now, I must get back to (lab) work!!!

DonJ · Mar 25, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
That sounds like one of the "photographers" or "experts" on the infamous Dpreview. Any article about film, monochrome from any media, manual focus, Leica, or medium format sets them off on orgasmic frenzies of trolling and derision.

For example?

benjiboy · Mar 25, 2019

I tell them I use my smartphone for my digital photography, for my serious work I prefer film .

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 25, 2019

faberryman said:
Wow. Such anger. Makes you wonder.

Not anger. My post was an example of sarcastic humor. My answer to strangers is always polite. No point in arguing with a fool lest you prove yourself one of them.

SchwinnParamount · Mar 25, 2019

BradS said:
I often go out with a 35mm SLR around my neck. By now I am well accustomed to complete strangers asking all manner of questions...as I'm sure all of you are too...
"Is that a film Camera?"
"Can you still get film for that?"
"Is that a black and white camera?" ---- yes, people really ask me this.
"Why don't you go digital?"

I occasionally get the devout digital imager that, essentially, informs me that they went digital, I should too, I'm dumb if don't ...but this doesn't really seem to happen too much any more.

This past weekend I experienced a new one...I was out in the woods and a digital imager confronted me. He asserted (wasn't asking but telling ) that...
"You cannot get film for that anymore."
"You cannot get it processed anymore."

I was just so blown away, I didn't even know what to say....I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "good to know. Thanks." and walked away.

My response would be "If I couldn't get film for this film camera, what an idiot I would be to walk about with an empty camera... unless ... the camera isn't empty?"

How to deal with photography deniers?

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