How To Buy Potassium Hydroquinone Monosulfate

Snapshot · Nov 14, 2007

stefan4u said:
High snapshot !!

Ahh, that formulation looks familiar... ,I,ve posted a very similar one a few weeks ago,
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

And right, Hydroquinonemonosulphate has to be increased to 22- 24 g/Ltr. Watch out for the Phenidone, the 0,5g ammount I gave are only a approach. It schould be Dimezone-S in the region of about 1,4 g/Ltr. For the reason of the higher activity from normal Phenidone (A) a dose of 0,8g/ltr should be nearly equal. I've decided for 0,5 g/Ltr Phenidone because of the (desired) lowered gradiation...

Maybe you can call JD Photochemicals in Longeuil. Although Hydrochinonmonosulfate is not listed in her store Dead Link Removed
Mrs. Vrana is a VERY helpful person, maby she can get what you need. On top of this she do have nice prices, I've got a pound CD-4 from her last year and including shipping it from Canada to Germany it was cheaper than here...

Regards,
Stefan

Hi Stephan,

It's actually your formula, IIRC. Thanks for your hard work in developing it. I already spoke with Claire but she is unable to procure this chemical. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your hydroquinone monosulfate?

Photo Engineer · Nov 14, 2007

Look at the formula by Dan Schwartz here and on his web site in what is probably that other thread. Dan's last version was very close.

PE

Snapshot · Nov 14, 2007

With a nod of thanks to Evan Clarke, I spoke with Brian at Laabs and he was extremely helpful and polite. I can certainly recommend dealing with him. However, he was stumped as to a source for hydroquinone monosulphate. It looks like I might have to make the stuff and plan a trip to the library.

Photo Engineer · Nov 14, 2007

I need some too, so I've contacted the Formulary. IDK if they can get it or not, but at least they know there is interest out there, so maybe they can find a new supply.

PE

Snapshot · Nov 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
I need some too, so I've called the Formulary. IDK if they can get it or not, but at least they know there is interest out there, so maybe they can find a new supply.

PE

Would you be able to let us know if they get some in? I will order at least 1 lb of it.

stefan4u · Nov 14, 2007

Sorry for the absence, I'm on Work now...

I've got mine Hydrochinonmonosufate from "Organica" / Calbe the follower of former ORWO Chemicals in Bitterfeld, Germany. They do have the DTOD too, but minimum Order is 1 Kg each. I really have no idea how about shipping to foreign contrys, it was difficult enough to get it for me as a private person. Things may be different if you do have your own company...

Anyway, if you decide to use the soulutions as single use you will be able to decrease the developing agents. Look for example at following Patenthttp://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5948604-description.html

This was a "corner-stone" for me, followed by different other recieps and Patents which I found during the search of the right iodide potion. If I remember right Hydrochinonmonosulfate is most times used in the ammount of 22 till 24 or 26g/L. I would recommand to use the developers only one way anyway!

If you are in a permanent lack of hydrochinonmonosulfate, I would not hesitate to try 6g simple Hydrochinon. I dont wanna arouse a new dispute of the "right " developing agent, simple Hydrochinon is (renownedly) not perfect. If you have slides with clear and intense colors this will work, if colors are more subtile there will be a slight color crossover. At least this are my observations...
Hydrochinon changes it's activity quite fast, so brew and use the developer...
Sorry that's it for now, work does not wait...

Regards,
Stefan

Photo Engineer · Nov 14, 2007

Stefan;

HQ can be used in place of HQMS. There are 2 problems. First, the plain HQ developer changes in activity with time, due to decomposition from air into HQMS.

Second is the fact that HQ is too active on the various layers and does not yield quite the same image quality in the various layers. So different films may give different color shifts and dye hues.

If you stick with one film, and balance things you can get usable results from the fresh solution, but you cannot be assured of good results with all films and especially from older developer solution. It does not age well.

PE

stefan4u · Nov 14, 2007

back again...
Dear PE, I'm absolutley with you. The sulfonated Hydrochinon is much better in terms of aging, activity and even development as I learned the hard way. Just wrote the prior to encourage experiments, for the case that hydrochinonmonsulfonate is not availible at all.

Regards,
Stefan

Snapshot · Nov 14, 2007

Well, it seems that HQMS is vital for consistency. How long before the HQ version starts to destabilize? One or two weeks?

Photo Engineer · Nov 14, 2007

Minutes to hours depending on mixing and storage. And it differs with the film you are using.

There are discussions in several text books about HQ developers and their changes in activity vs keeping. You see, one thing about this reaction is that it raises pH, so you see a drop in activity and then a rise, and then a drop. This is due to loss of HQ, then an increase in pH and finally a drop in both levels. It is very complex. Use of HQMS solves the problem.

PE

Snapshot · Nov 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Minutes to hours depending on mixing and storage. And it differs with the film you are using.

There are discussions in several text books about HQ developers and their changes in activity vs keeping. You see, one thing about this reaction is that it raises pH, so you see a drop in activity and then a rise, and then a drop. This is due to loss of HQ, then an increase in pH and finally a drop in both levels. It is very complex. Use of HQMS solves the problem.

PE

It would seem if I have any desire to produce consistent results, then HQMS is essential. Now, if only I can grab some from somebody. :confused:

nworth · Nov 14, 2007

I found a catalog listing (www.tciamerica.com/catalog/H0187.html), but the price - ouch! This used to be carried as one of the Kodak BD (balanced developing) agents at only an exorbitant price. What ever happened to them? The last I saw, a couple of years ago, Eastman Chemical (no longer part of Eastman Kodak) still made several developing agents. Maybe they still do.

dslater · Nov 14, 2007

Snapshot said:
Certainly, PE. I should have brought it up in the beginning of the thread. It was my intention to experiment with a DIY E-6 formula. I understand that hydroquinone monosulphate is what should be used in the first developer but I currently have only hydroquinone. I also understand that home brew E-6 formulations are not accurate. Consequently, I run the risk of long term image stability, loss of image quality and grain.

The formula that I'm using is as follows:

==== cut ======

This formula was posted by a APUGer not too long ago and is a variant of the Watkins formulation. I thought I would play around with it and see what results I would get. The Canadian winter is coming and I need some indoor stuff to occupy my time with. Once again, thank you for all the help that you provided.

Just curious - where's the reversal bath?

Dan

Photo Engineer · Nov 14, 2007

Use light reversal and save money.

PE

Mike Wilde · Nov 15, 2007

Snapshot - a local work around?

I'm out in Mississuaga, and one of the last times I was out at the local to me HHW depot dropping off expired fix, bleach etc. I found on the 'free to take' shelf a bunch of recently out of date E-6 concentrates. I am using the e-6 bleach as my current C-41 bleach, and otherwise I have stuff to spare. I think that I have 3 or so 1 gallon concentrates of E-6 first developer; so if it is just the first dev developing agent that has you stumped, there is a work around at hand. I too mix from scratch, and have done Watkins Chromebrew in the past, so I know what you are up against.

I am making a run downtown tomorrow and sunday to drop off my kids for a weekend away at thier aunts, so if you don't have access to a car, give me a call and perhaps we can set a drop off up. I will PM you with my contact details, but my subscription has expired, and the last time it did so the credit card script could not handle me not having a US state as part of my address, so I am not sure if that is going to work yet. If no PM in the next short while, post your interest or not back here. Mike.

eclarke · Nov 15, 2007

nworth said:
I found a catalog listing (www.tciamerica.com/catalog/H0187.html), but the price - ouch! This used to be carried as one of the Kodak BD (balanced developing) agents at only an exorbitant price. What ever happened to them? The last I saw, a couple of years ago, Eastman Chemical (no longer part of Eastman Kodak) still made several developing agents. Maybe they still do.

These guys want $98.10 US for 10 g of the stuff, it sounds like a synthesis project. Snapshot, you said you have long cold winters and need a project!!..Good luck...EC

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2007

It certainly cannot cost that much or the E6 first developer price would be out of sight. What does Kodak sell it for?

PE

eclarke · Nov 15, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
It certainly cannot cost that much or the E6 first developer price would be out of sight. What does Kodak sell it for?

PE

They are a lab chemical place and always get huge dollars for even common chemicals like sulfite...EC

Snapshot · Nov 15, 2007

Mike Wilde said:
I'm out in Mississuaga, and one of the last times I was out at the local to me HHW depot dropping off expired fix, bleach etc. I found on the 'free to take' shelf a bunch of recently out of date E-6 concentrates. I am using the e-6 bleach as my current C-41 bleach, and otherwise I have stuff to spare. I think that I have 3 or so 1 gallon concentrates of E-6 first developer; so if it is just the first dev developing agent that has you stumped, there is a work around at hand. I too mix from scratch, and have done Watkins Chromebrew in the past, so I know what you are up against.

I am making a run downtown tomorrow and sunday to drop off my kids for a weekend away at thier aunts, so if you don't have access to a car, give me a call and perhaps we can set a drop off up. I will PM you with my contact details, but my subscription has expired, and the last time it did so the credit card script could not handle me not having a US state as part of my address, so I am not sure if that is going to work yet. If no PM in the next short while, post your interest or not back here. Mike.

I'm definitely interested. Let me know what you want me to do. Thanks!

Snapshot · Nov 15, 2007

eclarke said:
These guys want $98.10 US for 10 g of the stuff, it sounds like a synthesis project. Snapshot, you said you have long cold winters and need a project!!..Good luck...EC

Unforutnately, I'm not a chemistry wiz or even semi-skilled. If anyone can offer any input on how to make the stuff, I will definitely appreciate it. I'm wondering if the libraries here in the GTA have anything that can be useful?

stefan4u · Nov 15, 2007

High snapshot, and all others !!

Google around for cas: 21799-87-1

You will find various supplier for potassium hydroqinone monosulfonate. Most of them im China / Hong kong or wherever.

But not all of them. Follow the link below:

http://newsearchch.chemexper.com/cheminfo/servlet/org.dbcreator.MainServlet?realQuery=entry._structureID%3D4655284&sort=%3E%7Eentry.intValue&target=entry&from=1&searchTemplate=rn.value%3D%3D%3F&action=PowerSearch&searchValue=21799871&history=off&format=ccd&options=brandqtyoffer

This stuff is distinctly more expensive than hydroquinone, I paid 55 Euro (~75 Dollar) for one Kg, but the main difficulty will be to convince the distributors to sale small (1 kg) ammounts to a private Person.
On the other hand, if you get a "real" person on the telephone, it will work propably, (hopefully). At least this is the way it works for me, they all want to earn some money at the end...

Regards,
Stefan

Snapshot · Nov 15, 2007

Evidiently, you can create the the HQMS with sodium sulfite, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide.

Hydroquinone Monosulfonate, Sodium

25.0g of sodium sulfite, 11.0g of hydroquinone and 10ml of hydrogen peroxide (40% solution) in 500ml of water.

This should get me what I need. Obviously, I'll have to balance out the first developer formula to get the correct pH and results.

I would like to thank a friend and fellow APUGers, PE especially, for helping out.

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2007

I've got all of that but the 40% H2O2. That is dangerous stuff. If you can get it, be very very careful of it. It is a very powerful oxidant.

The 3% might work just as well here seeing as there is so much water involved. The peroxide is being diluted to 4%, so that is 4 grams of H2O2 itself. All you need is 133 ml of 3% H2O2 and 366 ml of H2O to reformulate and make things come out even.

That should work, but addition method could be important.

PE

Snapshot · Nov 15, 2007

Yes, I was concerned about the H2O2 as well. In fact, you might not be able to buy H2O2 in Canada without a permit. I will call my local chemical supplier and see if what hoops I need to jump through. Otherwise, I will use store bought 3% solution.

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2007

I have about 2 Kg of HQ here. I may give this a crack.

However, the hard part will be purification of the material and making a solid of it. You cannot be sure of what you have from any organic reaction until you recrystallize it.

PE

How To Buy Potassium Hydroquinone Monosulfate

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