How to buy film in this economy?

clayne said:

Look at it this way, 30$ is 15 rolls when bought per roll.

Click to expand...

I guess it is like getting 5 rolls free at that rate if you don't count any of the loading costs and if you can get cartridges for free (what about caps?). If I even used the cheapest Arista non-dx coded cartridges, they would run $.63 each, which eats into $.50 per roll savings (from my previous example) pretty quick unless you re-use them a whole bunch of times. I'd be afraid that the felt would get dirty pretty quickly and I would rather chuck them sooner than later to avoid scratching my film.

I do see where it would be a huge advantage of using custom length rolls for different processing.

Do you have a local camera shop and do you want them to stay in business?

If so consider buying your film there even though it costs more. They are being caught in a vise between Internet sales, digital conversion and the poor economy. Yes they are more expensive but, if you have a local camera shop and if you want them to stay in business; consider supporting them.

~Steve Sloan
San Jose

ssloansjca said:

Do you have a local camera shop and do you want them to stay in business?

If so consider buying your film there even though it costs more. They are being caught in a vise between Internet sales, digital conversion and the poor economy. Yes they are more expensive but, if you have a local camera shop and if you want them to stay in business; consider supporting them.

~Steve Sloan
San Jose

Click to expand...

I agree unless you can't get the products you want locally or whatever. I mean the bottomline is to keep the local emonomy healthy and good as much as we can with real cash...

unfortunately all of the photoshops in my town have gone out of business, otherwise everything would be peachy! thanks for all of the great suggestions!!

declark said:

I guess it is like getting 5 rolls free at that rate if you don't count any of the loading costs and if you can get cartridges for free (what about caps?). If I even used the cheapest Arista non-dx coded cartridges, they would run $.63 each, which eats into $.50 per roll savings (from my previous example) pretty quick unless you re-use them a whole bunch of times. I'd be afraid that the felt would get dirty pretty quickly and I would rather chuck them sooner than later to avoid scratching my film.

I do see where it would be a huge advantage of using custom length rolls for different processing.

Click to expand...

The caps are already on the cassettes that are preloaded from the factory; they're on for good, unlike the snap-off caps that are on the empty cassettes you buy. A small piece of film will be sticking out from the cassettes from the mini-lab as the machines they use cuts it off at that point. Just use good tape and put the butt ends of film together and wind away with you loader.

Jim:
Thanks for the "bulk-loading 101" course. I thought your typical film lab popped the caps.

youngphotofreak94 said:

i have a question...how does one buy black and white film in this economy??
is it cheaper to buy in bulk? from who?
when i went to the local drug store it was $6 for a 400 roll!
any suggestions??
thanks!
anna

Click to expand...

The real trick to buying film in a bad economy is to shoot like film like it costs what it does. When film is very cheap, lots of people shoot like film is cheap, if you get 1 or 2 good shots per roll you consider that good. When film is more expensive then you need to increase that 1 or 2 good shots per roll, to maybe 5 - 10 good shots per roll, so maybe your more careful about double checking focus, get more zone like about exposure, so that you get a lot more good exposures per roll, so maybe instead of using 5 rolls in a section, you only use 3, and end up printing just as many shots.

The other thing, and this may seem to fly in the face of reason, use only 2 or 3 good quality films all the time, rather then experimenting with a bunch of cheap off brand or expired films, because you will end up wasting a lot of film, trying to figure out how to get the film to do what you want it to. By the same token standardize on one set of chemistries.

Buy film locally, this keeps more of your money in the local economy.

Buy film when you have the cash, rather then when you need it, especially if it's on sale (as long as it's not expired), keep all film, but especially short dated film in the freezer, to extend it's life.

I also cruise Craigslist for film. Lots of folks will sell film there because they have gone digital. I just bought 39 rolls of E-6 and B&W 120 film for a small amount. What I don't use I'll sell back or give away.
Gee, maybe I shouldn't have shared this? Forget what ever I said and buy locally!

What do you search for in Craigslist to find film? I never had any luck searching for camera stuff, because you get tons of digital. Searching 'darkroom' has a decent S/N ratio but I don't ever come across film that way.

I go to the photo+video section of For Sale. Then search 120 film or medium format if thats the size I'm looking for. Sometimes 4x5. I also search other cities that I know are heavier film based. The SF Bay Area is one. Seattle is another. But you never know where film or cameras can be found. CL breaks a state up by it's cites and I'll do a city by city search.
Once, I saw an ad for a "Brownie Camera" going for $25. When I opened the link the camera was a Speed Graphic 4x5 with case and two lenses. I called the guy up to buy the camera but was just too late. D'oh!

I buy from this store: Agfa APX is very cheap and it's AGFA http://macodirect.de/13536br10-filme-p-144.html Even Fuji Neopan 400 is not too expensive relative to its quality http://macodirect.de/fuji-neopan-13536br10-filme-p-305.html
Also , anothor store is this one http://www.mailshotsuk.co.uk/acatalog/Black_and_White_Film.html with pressti cheap films and well known brands.
Macodirect accepts PayPal too
Another german store is Fotoimpex : http://www.fotoimpex.de/
There are solutions

declark said:

Jim:
Thanks for the "bulk-loading 101" course. I thought your typical film lab popped the caps.

Click to expand...

Most mini-labs using rooler transport to pull the film along thru the chems. The tech will fish the film leader out of the cassette and cut it off square The lab-tech (sometimes more praise than they're worth ) takes a thick plastic card with notches cut down the middle and tapes the film to it. The caps are not pulled off the cassette. This card with the cassettes dangling from the card via tape is then inderted into the film processor and the light-tight door is shut. The gears in the maching grab the notches and pull the film thrall the chems. When it reaches the end, the film is cut off. Most labs just throw away the cassettes, although some do recycle, but both are happy to give them away.

Sometimes a roll will come in and just can't be fished out of the cassette. This roll is put into a dark bag and the tops popped and the film is put into a dummy cassette and then taped to the card.

If your "lab tech" forgets to tape both both sides of the film to the card, you could be in for big trouble. I had a "tech" do this to a high school dance job of mine and she ruined 4-5 rolls of 220 film. Pro labs use dip and dunk which is much more reliable. However, this doesn't mean the you can't use your mini-lab for cassettes!

Fuji Neopan usually sells at Freestyle for around three bucks a roll. One of my personal favorites for cheap film. I like it better than Arista, but try it for yourself. I also buy a brick when times are better and freeze for later use.

Is there any good reason why Ilford costs almost twice what the Arista does? Freestyle quotes 52.99 for Ilford Delta Pro 400 iso 35mm x 100 ft., and 29.99 for Arista Premium B&W 400 ISO-
I assume its the "this is what people will pay" problem, but I could be wrong.

John, The Ilford dilemma never goes away. A year or so back people said it was the weak dollar, well the dollar is doing comparitively well compared to the pound, so it's not that and prices certainly won't go down now the dollar is stronger. Ilford is and will always be more expensive, but they are standing behind B&W to their credit. That said, I cannot see how they can justify being over a third more expensive than Fuji, and twice as expensive as Arista etc. I can get 1 roll of Fuji Neopan-400 in 120 for $2-89. HP5+ is at least dollar more. Is it any better, I doubt it, but that savings soon adds up to a lot more fuji film for the money. With that said, is HP5+ and Neopan-400 better than Arista rebranded film, I don't know that either. The good thing is, we have a choice at least. For me, Neopan-400 is a stunning film and I have gotten better results than using HP5+ so I get a cost savings and better results that sells it for me. YMMV and HP5+ or whatever ilford product may suit your workflow better. To me, it's far more important to get consistency, and use what works for you, and know it inside out over the cost. Also higher quality film normally makes for less reshooting, which is not always easy or cheaper in the long run if you use cheaper film to start with. Again, YMMV

I don't think the economy should dictate the film you buy and use. If you are out of work, then just buy less and make more careful pre-shooting decisions. It is always best to work with materials you know and are familiar with, when every shot counts.

It is troublesome to justify the expense of things photography. In the past I've tried obtaining film on the cheap, but I'm starting to see the value of using high quality film. Why? Here are a few reasons:

1. Consistency. If you use Ilford, Fuji, Kodak - you're highly likely to have a product that's identical from batch to batch. That's important, because you get a better feel for what you need to do when you print your film - you waste less paper! That's a cost savings from using high quality film.
2. Quality. You're pretty much bullet proof protected against film problems with the big three. That means less frames wasted. When I shoot Foma film (bless them) I always shoot two frames of the same scene. Often I end up with problems with small holes in the emulsion, it scratches very easily sliding the negs in and out of their print file holders... Spending two frames on a shot that should take one frame - that's a waste, and a cost savings by using high quality film.
3. When you purchase film that is more expensive - at least I am more careful with each frame. It's easy to get sloppy when you found film for 80c per roll. At least for me that's so.

There are so many factors that weigh in, but it's important to look at the big picture before making a decision of what to purchase. I no longer pursue cheap film, but agree with Andy (a couple of posts above) that Neopan films from Fuji are extremely well positioned price wise, and they are stunningly beautiful. Choosing between that, Kodak (love all of their films, they are beautiful!), and Ilford (love all of their films too as they are equally beautiful to Kodak and Fuji) - I pick Fuji. A buck a roll sure adds up.

- Thomas

Thomas, the only thing I could add to that is film curl. Lots of low-budget films curl like crazy. This doesn't effect the quality of the image, but it sure can drive you nuts! The big four (I include Agfa because the film is still out there) have spent extra R&D dollars to fix this problem.

That's a great point, Jim.

The funny thing is that Efke, Foma, Rollei Retro, etc - are as expensive if not more so than the Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji! You get the curl for free, though.

Actually, the curl of the Foma films has caused, on more than one occasion, problems with the film for me. A sharp corner of the film has caused scratches on a different part of the film - because the film curled back up onto itself like a spring... It can drive you nuts, and you have to be really careful when you handle the film.
Plus many of those emulsions are not hardened. Sure you can treat them gently, but accidents do happen.

- Thomas

I use amazon.com

I use amazon.com and go to calumet's storefront. They've been running free shipping specials even for single rolls of 120 b&w. I picked up 3 rolls of ilford for around $3 a piece without shipping. Since I don't shoot as much as many of you I don't want to invest in a brick if I'm not going to use it.

PHOTOTONE raised a good point about being more careful when out shooting. That is something I am training myself to do. When you are out shooting, I am trying to be more selective about my shots. There were times in my younger photographic days where I would shoot a lot more subjects, and it seemed I also produced more mediocre work as a result. I am making a concerted effort this year to be more selective in what I shoot from now on. I've gotten better, but still need to improve on what I feel is the most difficult decision a photographer has to make..... When NOT to press the shutter. I am absolutely more selective when I shoot these days, but I try to restrain myself to images that really jump out at me rather than ones that I am not so sure about but take a shot anyway just in case. Now if this was on a trip where I may not make it back for a while, I may add one more shot or two for good measure. While I was in Cornwall over Christmas, I burned through 21 rolls of film. That said, I felt I was in a 'target rich' environment and was really feeling the juices going. However, when I am shooting locally near my home, I try to limit myself more so I think more about my image making. So far this year, I have only taken 2 rolls of film where I normally shoot 12 to 15 rolls of 120 film per month on average. The other reason for shooting less is that I sometimes I need some down time away from the cameras. I love to shoot film like all of us on here, but blasting through film without a specific direction or theme to me anymore is wasteful of time, money and effort. I try to make wise purchases for materials, use them wisely, and splurge when the moment may call for it.

Well said, Andrew. I used to tell my students to think of each scene as the last frame on the roll in the camera.

bad habits from digital

Switching back and forth between digital and analog photography I sometimes forget that I can't be so liberal with the shutter when I'm shooting with film. With the cheap flash memory prices these days it is easy to forget that.

mongo6407 said:

Switching back and forth between digital and analog photography I sometimes forget that I can't be so liberal with the shutter when I'm shooting with film. With the cheap flash memory prices these days it is easy to forget that.

Click to expand...

Which is one of the fallacies of digital. Shot a lot and you'll find a keeper. Well a keeper might be found, but it is serendipity. Patience and skill can capture the keeper in one shot, well two for me I have second 4x5 sheet just in case I mess up developing. ( like that has never happened ). Even the reason for extra shots have changed. For me it is backup of the image. In digital of it more like 'can I keep the shutter going fast and long enough to get a good image.'

trexx said:

Which is one of the fallacies of digital. Shot a lot and you'll find a keeper. Well a keeper might be found, but it is serendipity. Patience and skill can capture the keeper in one shot, well two for me I have second 4x5 sheet just in case I mess up developing. ( like that has never happened ). Even the reason for extra shots have changed. For me it is backup of the image. In digital of it more like 'can I keep the shutter going fast and long enough to get a good image.'

Click to expand...

"Spray and pray."