How to avoid scams?

Paul Ozzello · Mar 8, 2021

I'm considering buying an expensive camera from someone in Russia. The seller seems legit but you never know - and it's a considerable amount of money. Does anyone have any recommendations on avoiding scams?

Paul

BrianShaw · Mar 8, 2021

Best way to avoid scam, if you have even a hint of one, is not to do the deal.

Ernst-Jan · Mar 8, 2021

fatso said:
Does anyone have any recommendations on avoiding scams

Pick up the camera yourself. But that's not a feasible solution in this case

Does using Paypal help in this case? Maybe something to consider?

Sirius Glass · Mar 8, 2021

For starters, shop elsewhere. Life is to short to go punching tar babies.

Grim Tuesday · Mar 8, 2021

Insist that it get sent by DHL Express instead of the slow boat - eBay is very good with buyer protection, but some of it expires at 30 days so you can't be waiting more than 30 days with the camera in the mail.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2021

fatso said:
buying an expensive camera from someone in Russia. The seller seems legit but you never know - and it's a considerable amount of money.

Paul

In terms of facts that is all we know and assuming we know everything that Paul knows then that is all any of us know. He has not indicated that there is anything he knows of that makes this purchase a scam or likely to be a scam per se

Frankly I'd need to know a lot more about what he knows about the seller such as does he sell cameras on a regular basis; does the seller have a camera business:is the sale via e-bay and how is the payment requested i.e. via paypal, credit card protection etc

Anything more you can say Paul about what you know might help. On the other hand if you harbour doubts and are looking for similar doubts to be expressed here on Photrio then in the nature of forums you will certainly get responses from fellow doubters if that describes your state of mind over the safety of this transaction

pentaxuser

MattKing · Mar 8, 2021

Pay with something like PayPal or another payment method that includes some sort of payment protection.
You need to read the rules that apply to that protection, and you need to follow them accurately and completely - including any rules that deal with time limits.
Be prepared to pay for as fast and reliable and secure a shipping method as is practical.
Russia is a long way, but so is Los Angeles!

Paul Ozzello · Mar 8, 2021

My gut feeling tells me it's legit. But it's a private sale and I don't think PayPal offers protection in that case. The listing indicated a preference for an in person sale - but he would cover the shipping costs of DHL. I don't know a whole lot more than what I posted; the seller speaks very good English, seems to know all about the camera, the pictures look good. The only reason I'm considering it is that it's a rather rare camera thst doesn't come up for sale very often and it's in pristine condition. I would have flown there myself but covid...

As far as Russia is concerned - with the amount of scams in the US it can't be any worst.

Has anyone used an escrow service to purchase expensive equipment?

Grim Tuesday · Mar 8, 2021

PayPal buyer protection applies if you send the money under "goods and services" and the seller gets hit with an extra 3% fee for the courtesy. If you send the money "to friends and family" there is no buyer protection. I believe it applies internationally but you should check it yourself.

btaylor · Mar 8, 2021

Not enough information here to form an opinion. About 10 years ago I bought thousands of dollars worth of cinema gear from several Russian and Ukrainian sellers. No PayPal, bank transfers only. Some transactions were through eBay and some were not. It went well! Maybe I was just lucky, I don't know. In any event, these sellers were known to be in the business of selling FSU cinema equipment and as such had some reason to preserve a reputation. While I was pretty nervous at times almost everything arrived safely and in the condition described. The one exception was from a guy who gained a reputation for selling junk. I think I managed a refund on that one.

removed account4 · Mar 8, 2021

Always use PayPal you will be protected and so will the seller

BrianShaw · Mar 8, 2021

Perhaps the first “test” could be to request a PayPal invoice containing details of the item being purchased. Any legit person, private or company, should be more than willing to do that as a show of good faith.

Truzi · Mar 8, 2021

I've only dealt with Russian sellers for photo equipment twice. The first time the package never came, just the mailing slip (which likely was separated from the package in-transit), and I was promptly reimbursed. The second time the item took forever, but it got here.. and this was pre-pandemic.

I've purchased a few household items and toiletries as well, all without problem. So generally speaking, I'd trust foreign sellers as much as North American. Just follow your general instincts, and read feedback. Sometimes negative feedback is really buyer's remorse (or buyer's scam, or buyer expects it to traverse the globe in 2 days, etc.).

xya · Mar 8, 2021

I buy a lot from russia and ukraine. but only via paypal, no exception. never a problem so far...

Helge · Mar 8, 2021

One of the best things you could do is to show us the photos.
If it is a scam there is likely to be a small thing that someone here will pick up on.
Plagiarized photos for starters.
Or some little thing that is amiss.

I know it is against your initial instincts, because you want to keep the deal to yourself and because you think it would go against good practice with the seller making him cross.
Chances of some arsehole tracking down the deal and snatching it, is extremely small based on photos though. And chances of him seeing it here is also very small.

Another thing you try, is to be unconventional and ask that you have the camera in your hands before you pay in full.
If the choice is between not buying out of concern, or trying this, it’s worth a shot.
It would necessitate that you give him a good and polite explanation as to why, and possibly that you pay a security deposit.

cptrios · Mar 8, 2021

I bought a hotshoe rangefinder and a Kiev 4a from the Ukraine, and both of them, shockingly, work fine. They took 5 weeks and 3 weeks to get here, respectively - so I'd definitely be mindful of that 30-day limit. Buying on eBay does protect you well enough, so I wouldn't sweat it too much. Just don't buy anything that says "as is" and makes no claim of functionality, since you might not have recourse for a return in that case (though you also might, since eBay seems to side with buyers more often than not). I think the worst thing that's likely to happen is that you wait a while to get something that doesn't work, and then have to deal with the emotional disappointment! Happened to me with a camera I bought from Japan last month. The seller took it back with no problem, though.

BrianShaw · Mar 8, 2021

Thinking out loud... are there escrow services available to independently provide mutual security in a situation like this?

MattKing · Mar 8, 2021

The buying and selling I've done through APUG/Photrio has mostly been done using PayPal, and I always make sure that I am fully compliant with the protection rules.
When I have been a seller, I always issue a PayPal invoice. Proceeding that way has the additional advantage of the PayPal program offered by Canada Post. That gives me access to slightly better services, at slightly better prices, and allows me to apply the PayPal proceeds directly to the shipping costs - no concerns about funds intended for shipping costs being held. It also permits me to print out all the customs and shipping labels, all in one transaction.
I don't know if PayPal has similar arrangements with any Russian shippers.

takilmaboxer · Mar 14, 2021

Personally, I avoid buying from far away countries whose governments are essentially an arm of their version of the Mafia.

MattKing · Mar 14, 2021

takilmaboxer said:
Personally, I avoid buying from far away countries whose governments are essentially an arm of their version of the Mafia.

The temptation to make a post here about the politics in some US states is almost overwhelming.
But I shall resist.
One of the ways to improve other parts of the world is to help increase the economic prosperity there. So this issue pulls me both ways. Increasing the prosperity of individuals in a country like Vietnam or Russia can, over the long term, improve those governments. And buying products or services from those individuals helps do that.

Wallendo · Mar 14, 2021

I would never buy a "Leica" branded product from Russia or the Ukraine - just because so many fakes are for sale on eBay.

I have had mixed luck buying Industar and Jupiter lenses. All have arrived safely and intact, but a few don't focus well on any FED or Leica camera I have tried. I suspect a few of them were cleaned and not reassembled properly. Almost all of them work well on my NEX with m39 adapter.

neilt3 · Mar 14, 2021

takilmaboxer said:
Personally, I avoid buying from far away countries whose governments are essentially an arm of their version of the Mafia.

So presumably you don't buy from any country then , even your own then ?

Some are worse than others , but most governments are essentially just running a protection racket against its people !

Oops , I might "disappear" tonight !

Ernst-Jan · Mar 14, 2021

takilmaboxer said:
Personally, I avoid buying from far away countries whose governments are essentially an arm of their version of the Mafia.

And all Americans are 150kg (or 27 stones, 3 watermelons, 11 potatoes and 6 sugar cubes. )

Don't you think it's a bit generalising?

Bill Burk · Mar 15, 2021

Leicas aren’t really rare, at least not so rare that there might not be another one like it to be had.

Obviously sharing details here would run a risk of getting a bidding war going.

Good luck, I hope it goes well

Jonno85uk · Mar 15, 2021

Grim Tuesday said:
eBay is very good with buyer protection, but some of it expires at 30 days so you can't be waiting more than 30 days with the camera in the mail.

I had an issue with a seller a while back. He claimed he was in Guernsey. Item actually (eventually) came DOA, broken with parts missing from Moldova after over 2months. I thought I was out of luck but eBay refunded immediately without even having to send it back first.

How to avoid scams?

Paul Ozzello

BrianShaw

Ernst-Jan

Sirius Glass

Grim Tuesday

pentaxuser

MattKing

Moderator

Paul Ozzello

Grim Tuesday

btaylor

removed account4

BrianShaw

Truzi

xya

Helge

cptrios

BrianShaw

MattKing

Moderator

takilmaboxer

MattKing

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Wallendo

neilt3

Ernst-Jan

Bill Burk

Jonno85uk

How to avoid scams?

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