How to achieve finer grain with TMAX 100?

hoakin1981 · Aug 27, 2014

Pretty much what the subject says. I shoot 120 TMAX 100 with very nice results so far but I believe that this film is capable of finer grain with the proper treatment.

Only limitation from my side Is that It has to be done using HC-110 since I have a lot left and I do not plan on throwing it away.

My current workflow:

Solution B 1+31
6 minutes developing at 20c
30 seconds initial inversions (about 12)
10 seconds inv. every minute (about 4)

Thank you in advance!

Oscar Carlsson · Aug 27, 2014

Please post a few examples of how it is currently behaving. I don't shoot much TMAX 100, but when I do it's very fine grained, especially in 120.

chriscrawfordphoto · Aug 27, 2014

Proper treatment means using the right developer, and HC-110 isn't it.

hoakin1981 · Aug 27, 2014

chriscrawfordphoto said:
Proper treatment means using the right developer, and HC-110 isn't it.

Thanks, care to elaborate?

pgomena · Aug 27, 2014

My experience with HC-110 (20 years of it) was that it tended to produce a mushy grain.

Bear in mind also that although T-Max films are very fine-grained, they tend not to produce extremely sharp-looking images in my experience. I found that using Rodinal or a Pyrogallol or Pyrocatechin developer (PMK or Pyrocat-HD or Pyrocat-MC) gave a sharper-looking result.

If you want finer grain, try D-76 or X-Tol.

Personally, I never found T-Max 100 in 120 to give me any perceptible grain in moderate enlargements, say to 10x10".

Hatchetman · Aug 27, 2014

T-Max developer gives finer grain than D-76. That much I do know.

Kyle M. · Aug 27, 2014

I use Rodinal 1+25 or 1+50 with T-Max 100 in 120, I get very very fine grain and the sharpest images I've personally ever gotten.

baachitraka · Aug 27, 2014

I really suspect that you get a course grain with ISO 100 film in 120...

Konical · Aug 27, 2014

Good Morning Hoakin,

Back in the dim, dark, distant past, I believe that I did process T-100 in HC-110B. I think that my approach was almost identical to yours, except my vague recollection is that my developing time was around 5 minutes. I don't recall having any issues with the quality of the negatives. The results were such an improvement on anything I could get with Tri-X and Plus-X that I know I was very happy.

Later, I began to use T-Max developer (1:7 for about 10 minutes for "normal" development) and standardized on that. If T-Max developer disappeared and I had only HC-110 to use, I don't think I'd be unduly bothered.

Konical

Axle · Aug 27, 2014

I've gotten the best results out of my Tmax 100 using: Rodinal, Xtol, or the TMax developer (1+9 or 1+4)

MattKing · Aug 27, 2014

If you don't like the results you are getting, you might want to experiment with more dilute versions.

Either unofficial H (1+63) or 1 + 49 (pretty close to dilution E).

Most people who use H double their times for dilution B.

And for the 1 + 49 dilution, see Jason Brunner's article: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

More dilute means slightly less solvent action, so the results appear slightly sharper. That can then lead to slightly less development, and correspondingly less grain.

If you are using it more dilute, you may need to use larger tanks, because it is easy to end up with too little concentrate in the mix. I'm conservative, so I follow Kodak's recommendations, which calculate out to no less than 6 ml syrup per roll.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 27, 2014

It's almost impossible to find grain in 120 TMax 100 processed in replenished Xtol with a PEAK grain focusing device when printing 11x14 size prints.

I've never tried it in HC-110 so can't comment on that. But it's true for all films and developers that if you develop your film to higher density (thicker) then you will see more grain (because that's what makes up the image). You may simply wish to work with developing time and shorten it but you still have enough contrast and tonality. It's hard to shorten dev time in HC-110 Dil.B, because the times are already so short. Try a higher dilution like Matt suggests above, like Dil. H for double the time you normally process, and simply shoot and process 30 seconds less every time until you hit the sweet spot where you still have enough contrast and tonality, while keeping the density of the negative as low as you can.
That's what I would do if I had only one developer available to me.

But on the other hand, TMax 100 is so fine grained that it's hard to imagine someone wanting even finer grain. What is causing you to search for finer grain?

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2014

hoakin1981 said:
I believe that this film is capable of finer grain with the proper treatment.

Only limitation from my side Is that It has to be done using HC-110 since I have a lot left and I do not plan on throwing it away.

Thank you in advance!

Can you tell us what you have seen, read or heard that gives you the belief that there is another way with HC110 that gives finer grain than you currently get using it?

I assume that your current grain gives you problems? Is so you might want to tell us what those problems are.

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · Aug 27, 2014

I found Rodinal 3:100 gave superb fine grain with Tmax100 particularly with 35mm, but I used it for 120 & 5x4 as well

As Michael says Granularity/graininess is a function of many variables.

Correct exposures, and optimising your development to suit the lighting conditions (where possible) along with tight control of the temperatures in the development process all help minimise grain.

Ian

Sirius Glass · Aug 27, 2014

For finer grain try XTOL or replenished XTOL.

timor · Aug 27, 2014

Hi. Is this

good enough for you ? It is a scan from 8x10 print made using 35mm film And this

is a 1/4 of 16x20 enlargement made from the same neg.
Developed in X-Ray film, BM2000 developer.

JonPorter · Aug 27, 2014

HC-110 is an excellent developer with Tmax 100, though I agree with others who prefer a higher dilution. I rate TMX at 125 and develop it 1:50 for 9 minutes at 68 degrees. I give it 7-10 initial inversions, then three inversions every minute for the rest of development. I'm presently just scanning my negatives, but the results with HC-110 are consistent and very pleasing.

Athiril · Aug 27, 2014

Xtol.

If your equipment is up to the task, and you want to push the limits, you can add a large amount of KBr to a developer, to lose speed on the film while at the same time processing for longer, for an effect of speed loss without contrast loss, for much finer grain+sharpness, I haven't done this much on B&W, but I've done it on C-41 with good results.

Bill Burk · Aug 27, 2014

hoakin1981,

You have received excellent suggestions so far, I hope to hear more about your quest.

For a significant difference I would suggest a leap.

Have you considered, is it something you could easily do? Can you shoot 4x5 instead of 120?

markbarendt · Aug 27, 2014

hoakin1981 said:
Thanks, care to elaborate?

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...wFilmProcessing/selecting.jhtml?pq-path=14053

Colin Corneau · Aug 27, 2014

Thomas B. gives excellent advice as always.

Other than to reiterate his words, I'd suggest either trying a different developer (XTol, TMax or Ilford's wonderful DD-X) or just trying out a film like APX-25 or a similar 25-ISO film.

ic-racer · Aug 27, 2014

Although it may seem counterintuitive to some, try increasing development time somewhat and printing on a grade or two softer paper. This will minimize the microcontrast that is responsible for reproducing grain in your prints.

polyglot · Aug 27, 2014

hoakin1981 said:
Pretty much what the subject says. I shoot 120 TMAX 100 with very nice results so far but I believe that this film is capable of finer grain with the proper treatment.

Only limitation from my side Is that It has to be done using HC-110 since I have a lot left and I do not plan on throwing it away.

a) what do you mean by "finer" grain? Do you mean less amplitude to the grain, or higher spatial frequency?
b) as noted by others, HC-110 is not the right answer. Xtol is far better if you are interested in fine/smooth results; there are other developers to use if you want even more smoothness at the cost of resolution
c) minimise the film density: do not over-expose (just enough light to get the shadow detail you need), and develop just enough to get the contrast you want

What format are you shooting? How big are you printing?

Gimenosaiz · Aug 28, 2014

Hello.
I am very happy with my first try with Hc-110 and Tmax 100
Here
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Temperature 22c. 6'30". Dilution B. 4 inversions each minute.

Regards

Ian Grant · Aug 28, 2014

Athiril said:
Xtol.

If your equipment is up to the task, and you want to push the limits, you can add a large amount of KBr to a developer, to lose speed on the film while at the same time processing for longer, for an effect of speed loss without contrast loss, for much finer grain+sharpness, I haven't done this much on B&W, but I've done it on C-41 with good results.

Essentially the Bromide and Iodide build up in replenished Xtol has a similar effect on the grain size which is finer than when un-replenished but because it's not a Metol based developer there#s no loss of effective film speed.

In practice though I used Rodinal and replenished Xtol alongside each other for many years and both gave excellent fine grain & sharpness with APX100 & Tmax100 the two films were to all intents interchangeable except the APX100 was EI 100, the Tmax100 EI50.

Ian

How to achieve finer grain with TMAX 100?

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