How to achieve creamy highlights and neutral blacks

[SadChild]

Hello,

Long time i admire the colors of wet collodion photogs. I would like to recreate such colors(creamy highlights and neutral blacks) in general BW prints. Is it possible only with warmtone paper and developer achieve such effect? Do you know any combination of a paper and a developer which brings such colors?

Thanks in advance.

 

[rwboyer]

This will be virtually impossible - The curve shapes of some of those materials is what gives them their unique look. Same goes for a lot of alternative printing processes. I have played a lot with this type of thing in reverse (making negatives of appropriate CI on an inkjet and using them to print on Plat/Palladium) You could try the same type of thing by simulating the response of wet plate on a digital neg and then printing it on silver.

There are a few people that are shooting wet plate that you may want to get in touch with for insights into the tonal response vs. film.

RB

Ps. Another part of that look comes from shooting large sheet sizes with antique lenses full of all kinds of aberrations - if you are not doing that this will be another huge obstacle in getting that "look".

 

[SadChild]

Thanks, RB.

But if take aside curve shapes and try to solve one task colors : cream/warm highlights and neutral black?

 

[dpurdy]

I have done a bit of research on how to have warmth in the light tones and neutral dark tones after I saw a couple of Michael kenna exhibits. I think he gets it by printing on a neutral paper and then doing a double toning with selenium and sepia.
Dennis

 

[keithwms]

Yes, if you use a neutral paper and bleach the print and sepia tone it (or similar) then you should get what you describe. Remember that there are many bleaching potions you can wield, some are proportional, some are not, so you can affect the highlights more or less independently of the midtones and shadows. It won't be collodion, but....

I do sepia/selenium split (got into that after seeing some Kenna), and on some papers it is quite beautiful. (Whereas on others the selenium produces eggplant oddities) I don't know what you mean by creamy though, to me creamy is smooth and soft and white.

To my eye, a very big part of collodion is due to the blue sensitivity. If you wanted to emulate that you could go with ortho film and/or a blue filter.

But why not just do collodion...

P.S. You might also look into Morsch's carbon toner.

 

[SadChild]

I have done a bit of research on how to have warmth in the light tones and neutral dark tones after I saw a couple of Michael kenna exhibits. I think he gets it by printing on a neutral paper and then doing a double toning with selenium and sepia.
Dennis

Dennis, thanks for the tip.

 

[SadChild]

Yes, if you use a neutral paper and bleach the print and sepia tone it (or similar) then you should get what you describe. Remember that there are many bleaching potions you can wield, some are proportional, some are not, so you can affect the highlights more or less independently of the midtones and shadows. It won't be collodion, but....

I do sepia/selenium split, which on some papers gives roughly what you describe. I don't know what you mean by creamy though, to me creamy is smooth and soft and white.

To my eye, a very big part of collodion is due to the blue sensitivity. If you wanted to emulate that you could go with ortho film and/or a blue filter.

But why not just do collodion...

Hello, keithwms,

For me "creamy" is similiar to coffee with milk. It is not yellowish or greenish. It is not too pink or mangenta. Degree of tone is slight.

I'm not trying to recreate collodion pictures with general paper, but only colors.

 

[SadChild]

What if simplify problem: create coffee with milk highlights and possibly warm blacks.

Generally i use Fomatone MG. Diluted Ilford Warmtone gives close result, but the highlighs have slight green(olive) cast.

 

[keithwms]

Bleach and tone.

 

[rwboyer]

Thanks, RB.

But if take aside curve shapes and try to solve one task colors : cream/warm highlights and neutral black?

I completely missed that you were talking about print paper colors here considering collodion wet plate is a negative process and has nothing to do with print color.

RB

 

[SadChild]

Bleach and tone.

What toner can give such colors?

 

[rwboyer]

Ps. I have seen tons of prints from wet plate processes that have none of the print colors that you are searching for.

RB

 

[SadChild]

I completely missed that you were talking about print paper colors here considering collodion wet plate is a negative process and has nothing to do with print color.

RB

I meant ambrotype that we look at as positive image.

 

[keithwms]

What toner can give such colors?

You have to consider the paper and toner combo. They will vary widely.

I suggest looking at the Moersch site:

http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/galerie/carbon

 

[Mahler_one]

Ketih....I often look at the Moersch site and wonder if the materials offered are being annoyingly hyped by a master self promoter ( "the best developer in the world" ), or if there is something unique to what is offered. I have tended to believe the former, i.e., the materials are good, but similar to what one can obtain elsewhere. If you have used any of his materials, perhaps you can tell us if there is something to all of the boasting.

Thanks.

 

[keithwms]

I have tried various of his toners, as has Richard Pippin, my frequent darkroom cohort. We're both very happy. Actually I didn't notice the boasting. Anyway the results speak for themselves, but of course, if you feel you can get equal or better results with other products then, yeah, stick with those!

Wolfgang does routinely turn out very effective prints, at least to my eye.

 

[Donmck]

ahhhh.. Kodak Polymax "C"--

It's been out of production for many years and I have very few sheets left in the freezer.

I was told(not sure if it's true) that when Kodak stopped making Ektalure they had lots of base left ,so they just ran the polymax emulsion on it.

beautiful , beautiful paper that i have not found a replacement for,though I have tried toning other neutral papers-
I would explain what it looks like,but this guy wrote such a nice review,I'll just copy/paste-


Summary:
I'm going to talk about specifically one paper here, the Polymax 'C' surface, which a lot of photo stores don't carry - you may have to special order it.
This is a re-introduction (according to our local Kodak rep) of a surface popular in the 40's. It has a textured surface somewhat like the E surface in the RC papers and is a true double-weight.
It has no detectable 'whiteners'! The finish in the highlights is a rich creame color that is beautifully accented with a white matt. I started using it a couple of years ago when I recieved a test package and it has become my paper of choice for portraiture and nudes, anything where you wish to portray a soft, sensual feeling.
I've found it responds very well to either Dektol or Agfa MC developer. It has such a delicate, one of kind hue, that I've seen no reason to tone other than Selenium at 1/25 for archivallying.

Strengths:
Variable contrast
Consistency
Surface finish

Weaknesses:
None


http://www.photographyreview.com/mfr/kodak/black-and-white-paper/PRD_84892_3131crx.aspx

 

[Mahler_one]

I have tried various of his toners, as has Richard Pippin, my frequent darkroom cohort. We're both very happy. Actually I didn't notice the boasting. Anyway the results speak for themselves, but of course, if you feel you can get equal or better results with other products then, yeah, stick with those!

Wolfgang does routinely turn out very effective prints, at least to my eye.

Here you go....

<After 20 years of experience with the creation of developers it is time to break new grounds.
Modesty and self-effacement are inappropriate. While others beat the drums and blow the horns, a flute would be too silent to be heard:
ECO 4812 original “eau de Hürth” is my best positive developer and thus probably the best developer on the planet.>

 

[keithwms]

Haha. Wow that goes even further than Ctein.

 

[Mahler_one]

Yes...I was pretty shocked....P.T. Barnum lives again....

I know that his toners are quite excellent Keith....

Ed

 

[keithwms]

Indeed such things, even uif written in humour, definitely really affect people's impressions...

~~~

SadChild, I quote from the Moersch Carbon Toner bottle: "deep cold black - reddish brown"

If it's written then it must be so

 

[Mark Fisher]

Neutral paper, like Ilford MG, developed in a cold or neutral developer like Dektol very lightly toned in sepia and toned in selenium (Ilford MG doesn't do the eggplant color very easily).

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Creamy highlights and neutral blacks ? Lith printing.

 

[JBrunner]

I think it worth mention that much of the "look" of wet plate has to do with the spectral sensitivity of the medium (blue-green), not just creamy highlights and neutral blacks, but where those tones are in the subject.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Another suggestion is to shoot with a pinhole. I get "creamy highlights and neutral blacks" (and a full tonal range between) even on straight proofs.