How short is too short of development time?

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 23, 2019

Hi,
I’m processing Fuji HRT radiography film. I just got a Paterson Orbital to process 8x10 sheets. I’m running test with HC-110 (B) at 68 degrees F. I use the orbital with constant agitation. With my test, I’m almost getting bullet highlights. I’m getting densitometer readings of 2.08 with zone VII. My development times are down to 2 1/2 minutes. Is that too short of time? Shadow areas placed in Zone III is reading at .39 on my densitometer.

bdial · Aug 23, 2019

Way back when, we used to think it was cool to be able to develop a roll in HC-110 dilution whatever in 2 1/2 - 3 minutes. And we probably wouldn't have noticed any uneven-ness anyway. Kodak recommends 5 minutes or longer. Your skies or other large areas that should be even density will tell the tale. If they should be even and are not, then you need to make a change. Otherwise, if it works it works (IMHO).
OTH, 2 1/2 minutes isn't much time if you want to develop more than one sheet at a time, can you increase the dilution some to slow things a bit?

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 23, 2019

bdial said:
Way back when, we used to think it was cool to be able to develop a roll in HC-110 dilution whatever in 2 1/2 - 3 minutes. And we probably wouldn't have noticed any uneven-ness anyway. Kodak recommends 5 minutes or longer. Your skies or other large areas that should be even density will tell the tale. If they should be even and are not, then you need to make a change. Otherwise, if it works it works (IMHO).
OTH, 2 1/2 minutes isn't much time if you want to develop more than one sheet at a time, can you increase the dilution some to slow things a bit?

Thanks for the info. I’d like to dilute HC-110, but I use a replenished dilution B. The Orbital uses very little solution that I may process it with a higher dilution 1 shot.

Kino · Aug 23, 2019

Well, if you are not seeing uneven development, I'd say you are about at the bare minimum time of development. Since it's X-Ray film, it was designed for rapid processing, so that's probably a saving grace.

You might not get away with it using a standard type of camera original sheet film.

Diluting the developer might give you better scale (if that is what you want) and better uniformity...

RalphLambrecht · Aug 23, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Hi,
I’m processing Fuji HRT radiography film. I just got a Paterson Orbital to process 8x10 sheets. I’m running test with HC-110 (B) at 68 degrees F. I use the orbital with constant agitation. With my test, I’m almost getting bullet highlights. I’m getting densitometer readings of 2.08 with zone VII. My development times are down to 2 1/2 minutes. Is that too short of time? Shadow areas placed in Zone III is reading at .39 on my densitometer.

I consider 4min a min development time. anything shorter than that makes even development very difficult.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Aug 23, 2019

Jay Defehr reported even development with his rapid access developer with development times shorter than a minute. Here's a video he posted on his Flickr stream:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jay_defehr/14293718866/in/album-72157642922688135/

More discussion here: https://www.flickr.com/groups/99542567@N00/discuss/72157638100270293/

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 24, 2019

If you're getting even and adequate development at 2:30, that's great but...how do you plan on doing N minus? I would use a higher diluter.

DWThomas · Aug 24, 2019

For a minor random data point --- I use HRT for pinhole work and have settled on tray developing for 3:30 in HC110 1+63. I suspect there may be multiple ways to get there, but that was what I wound up with for adequate development without heavy duty contrast. I use a typical random rocking/sloshing constant agitation and have not noticed problems with uneven density.

MattKing · Aug 24, 2019

There may not be a minimum limit, but the test will be whether or not with a short time you are able to be sufficiently consistent in your development procedure.
Things like exactly how you insert the film, pour in the developer, agitate, pour out the developer and pour in the stop bath.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 24, 2019

DWThomas said:
For a minor random data point --- I use HRT for pinhole work and have settled on tray developing for 3:30 in HC110 1+63..

Thanks for the info. We’re kind of getting the same results. Are you shooting HRT at ASA 400?

DWThomas · Aug 24, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Are you shooting HRT at ASA 400?

Um -- more like 50 -- but then with pinholery, I never feel too confident in any pretense of precision. I suppose it could be argued I'm pulling development in my efforts to reduce contrast. But I've noted in the past that searches show folks claiming numbers from 25 to 400 for HR-T. So since there's no authoritative data sheet for using it in conventional photography, I've stumbled into what seems to work for me as a work flow.

Maybe if I looked harder it would be 80? But I don't own a densitometer -- "This is a hobby!"

(Some WPPD I feel flush with cash I should try some "real film!" )

koraks · Aug 24, 2019

I've never seen credible results from any xray film exposed at EI 400. Shadows are always lacking and any examples reported as "good" are invariably scans from negatives with likely digital trickery applied to make unprintable negatives look okay-ish.

I'd also go for a much lower dilution to get decent development times. The only xray film I've used so far with somewhat more usual development times is Ektascan BRA; all the double sided regular stuff tends to develop out in no-time at all.

Adrian Bacon · Aug 25, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Hi,
I’m processing Fuji HRT radiography film. I just got a Paterson Orbital to process 8x10 sheets. I’m running test with HC-110 (B) at 68 degrees F. I use the orbital with constant agitation. With my test, I’m almost getting bullet highlights. I’m getting densitometer readings of 2.08 with zone VII. My development times are down to 2 1/2 minutes. Is that too short of time? Shadow areas placed in Zone III is reading at .39 on my densitometer.

If you get uneven development, then it’s too short for how you’re developing. Lots of black and white practitioners say that 4 minutes is the minimum, but c-41 is 3:15. How is C-41 not getting uneven development? Well, c-41 is (or should be) constant agitation and a lot of bw is inversion agitation. If you run your film in a jobo or other processor that gives constant agitation, you can generally have shockingly short process times.

foc · Aug 26, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
If you get uneven development, then it’s too short for how you’re developing. Lots of black and white practitioners say that 4 minutes is the minimum, but c-41 is 3:15. How is C-41 not getting uneven development? Well, c-41 is (or should be) constant agitation and a lot of bw is inversion agitation. If you run your film in a jobo or other processor that gives constant agitation, you can generally have shockingly short process times.

You hit the nail on the head there !!
C41 at 3:15 was designed for machine processing where the chemicals are constantly agitated / circulated.
Hand developing in a tank is not the same so I agree that anything less than 4 minutes is not recommended. Just think of a mistake in timing of 30 seconds with a 4 min developing. That is an error of 12.5%
The same error at 6 mins is just over 8%
Of course, B&W film is fairly tolerant of developing times but short dev times can cause problems with the pouring in and emptying of the dev,

koraks · Aug 26, 2019

Try developing double-sided x-ray film for whatever time you want with continuous agitation. Odds are you'll get uneven development even if you pray to every deity you can think of.
The regular advice for B&W film does not always translate to x-ray, which just is a lot more finicky in several respects.

Still, I would repeat the recommendation of others to aim for a development time of 5 or more minutes, just to make things more consistent and repeatable. Sure, it's perfectly possible to get good results (even with x-ray) down to, say, 3 minutes, but everything just gets pretty critical if you want repeatable outcomes.
HC110 dilution B will just be *way* too strong for most double-sided x-ray film. Try half that strength or even a quarter. And keep fingers crossed for even development and no scratches...

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 26, 2019

Thanks for all helpful tips. I think most of the posters are saying that anything under 3-5 minutes of development. I haven't noticed that yet. I think a higher dilution would be a good idea. Another trick is to use a presoak of water with a drop of Edwal LFN or PhotoFlo.

How short is too short of development time?

Mainecoonmaniac

bdial

Mainecoonmaniac

Kino

RalphLambrecht

Raghu Kuvempunagar

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

DWThomas

MattKing

Moderator

Mainecoonmaniac

DWThomas

koraks

Moderator

Adrian Bacon

foc

koraks

Moderator

Mainecoonmaniac

How short is too short of development time?

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency