How rare are they? (Really)

darinwc · Oct 9, 2015

With the internet, it seems there are many many cameras and lenses available for purchase.

But I wonder sometimes if that is not reflective of the real rarity of a particular camera.

For instance, if a camera is unreliable or unpopular, maybe more people sell them and so you see a larger number of them. Even though not many were sold to begin with.

Or if an item is popular, it may not be resold very often.

Something else I have seen happen.. Dealers may buy all of a camera they can find. Then only keep one for sale at a time at an absurd price.

What do you guys think?

BrianShaw · Oct 9, 2015

Rare generally means that few were made or few remain in existence. Rare could be applied to special circumstances like having been owned by a famous person or in pristine condition. scarce generally jeans hard to get. Expensive means costing lots of money.

Like the word "mint" there are different interpretations of course.

BrianShaw · Oct 9, 2015

In other collectables it has been common for someone to surreptitiously buy up lots and lots of not so rare stuff and then create a market by stirring up a frenzy with clever ads about how rare the are. Sometime they have been of value and sometimes not so much.

Sirius Glass · Oct 9, 2015

Rare in eBay Speak means that the seller does not know what he is talking about but wants the maximum amount of money they can squeeze out of a buyer. It has no relation to the availability nor the reliability, rather it addresses gullibility.

summicron1 · Oct 9, 2015

the idea of a dealer trying to corner the market on a particular camera strikes me as silly -- any camera made in such few numbers that it is possible to buy a controlling number of the available copies -- and one that is desirable to collectors -- would already have a high price.

I doubt any camera is that rare but priced low enough so it would make the effort fiscally advisable. If it were, there would probably be a reason -- like nobody wants it at any price. If there were only three Brownie Starflex cameras, and you bought all three for 50 cents at yard sales, do you really think the price would soar?

frank · Oct 9, 2015

Rare seems to be a common term applied to many fsu cameras on eBay.

karl · Oct 9, 2015

Mere puffery.

MattKing · Oct 10, 2015

There is a listing right now on APUG for a Fuji 6x8 rangefinder - a camera that apparently was only produced for the Japanese market.

Relatively speaking, it is rare - at least outside of Japan.

There are a lot of reasons why something might be relatively scarce ("rare"). Geographical marketing facts are one of them.

I, of course, happen to really like that aspect ratio .

removed account4 · Oct 10, 2015

hi darinwc

i think with some people / sellers it is artistic license
( i remember dagor77's death by deardorf stories )
but in other cases something is actually scarce/rare.
i have a few things that i know are rare.
film holder adapter, lensboard adapter, a lens
and pair of cameras made for the amercian market by a company,
where only a tiny amount were made for the american market.

benjiboy · Oct 10, 2015

Rareity depends if you are buying or selling.

jjphoto · Oct 10, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Rare in eBay Speak means that the seller does not know what he is talking about but wants the maximum amount of money they can squeeze out of a buyer. It has no relation to the availability nor the reliability, rather it addresses gullibility.

100%

Rarity alone also has little to do with value. An item can be rare, actually rare not 'Ebay rare', and still be worth very little if there is no demand for it.

jeffreythree · Oct 10, 2015

Remember, a lot of rare old things were poorly designed or made when new. The faster people threw them out, the rarer it was to see them. Ebay definitions are completely different. Rare just means the seller never saw one before or just thought the word added a little something extra to the listing. Antique or vintage just means it looks old and dirty. If you put all 3 words together, you have something real special. There is a nice Kodak disc 4000 on there right now with those special words.

Newt_on_Swings · Oct 14, 2015

Everything becomes rare if you wait long enough.

ph · Oct 31, 2015

Basic qualification can be "not frequently available", but also "very few made". A four step scale A-D for the outer limits and a scale reflecting global markets, Westlicht, Ebay, netbased stores, camfairs... might perhaps do? such as:

Physical rarity:

A: Less than 10 ever made Example some Alpa and Leica special order
B: Less than 100 made Example Alpa Surgical
C: Less than 1000 made Example Leitz\Zeiss 15mm Hologon
D: Less than 10 000 made Example Leitz Leica IIIG

I am sure members here can furnish more and better examples

Global availability scale

A: Available once a decade
B: Once every year
C: Once evey half year
D: Once a month

Technological milestones, high precision items, peculiar constructions and unfortunate mutations may well have been made in the 100 000ds and hence no physical rarity, but stay securely with collectors or museums who appreciate historical milestones and can easily come high up in the market- rarity score.

p.

ozphoto · Oct 31, 2015

The Tamron Adaptal EF mount could be considered "rare"; I've only seen a couple around, and they are priced in the "crazy" region, compared to the regular Adaptal mounts.

I did manage to land one for a price I felt was fair on the day, still have it and won't be parting with it anytime soon as it's firmly attached to my Tamron 28mm f2.5. (The mount cost more than the lens!!!!)

GRHazelton · Oct 31, 2015

I retired a few years back after about 40 years in public library work. We in the biz are often asked by patrons for old book values. We rarely if ever gave an opinion - although obviously a Gutenberg bible, if it could be authenticated - would be a no-brainer. What I usually suggested was that value of an old book depended on a few factors: condition, rarity, and most importantly, DOES ANYONE WANT TO BUY IT. We saw any number of old readers, old series books, etc. We often referred patrons to American Book Prices Current, a useful guide which also got us off the hot seat. No one wants to be told that great-grandfather's reader is essentially worthless. I imagine Collectiblend.com is the camera equivalent, although it is hardly truly inclusive. Where is Bronica, for example??

But I'll bet that there're a lot of "rare" books out there on FleaBay!

BTW, is anyone else amused by the condition term "Minty"? Sounds more like a wonderful Bourbon whiskey drink.....

Kyle M. · Oct 31, 2015

Well I just bought a 50mm 3.5 Elmar lens with no fungus, haze, scratches, or coating marks for $225. These lenses themselves don't seem to be rare at all, but in this condition they seem rare at any price. On the other hand I also recently bought a Mint and I mean Mint Argus C44, the leather case even looks new, while I'm pretty sure the Argus C44 isn't rare I have never before seen one and they seem fairly uncommon, though I've seen tons upon tons of C3's. I would say rare depends on the the availability of an item more so than it does on production numbers these days. Both items I mentioned were made by the hundreds of thousands if not millions, but how often do you see them for sale? And what condition are they in? There is a difference between something being rare because few were made, and the same item being rare based on the condition it's in, at least to me theres a difference YMMV.

Ian Grant · Oct 31, 2015

Rare is when it's something you hardly ever see like a Carl Zeiss Jena 165mm f5.3 Tessar, or a post WWII Ross 107mm f3.8 Ensar with a SN 1007 most likely a prototype of the Ross 105mm f3.8 Xpres. Two lenses not mentioned in any literature.

Ian

Ian Grant · Oct 31, 2015

Very rare 110 camera

Another rarity is this Alliance Roll-film Camera Co Ltd 110 camera, at least 111 years old, the Company became part of Houghtons in 1904.

Houghtons were one of the partners in the Alliance Roll Film Co before taking them over completely. There's no references to this camera anywhere on the Internet or in adverts. The original 110 film a was roll film format giving 5"x4" negatives. The shutter is a smooth as the day it was made. A different 110 camera from the same company and later still made by Houghtons took roll film or a 5x4 palte holder. Kodak also made cameras in this format.

My wife spotted the camera at a flea market and wanted me to buy it, I didn't realise (nor did the seller) how extremely rare it is.

Ian

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 2, 2015

cameras , lenses are not rare , people who can understand their designers , who can use them satisfactorily are rare.

John Koehrer · Nov 4, 2015

Rare is what it is after I've sold or traded the piece.

Drew Bedo · Jan 3, 2016

The first Zone VI camera model made in USA.Mfg by Ron Wisner for Zone VI.
Only 100 fo these were made by Ron Wisner snd labeled with this name plate.

“The Zone VI Classic, Made for Zone VI Studios, Newfane VT"

Camera sold after that were made by Zone VII in Vermont and Labled"

"Made By Zone VI Studios, Newfane Vermont USA”

There were about 4,00 made with this name plate.

So what is RARE?

cliveh · Jan 3, 2016

Any seller worth his salt does not need to use the word rare. If he is advertising something rare, potential buyers will recognise that immediately.

michr · Jan 3, 2016

Consider the Rollei SL26, with 28,000 produced. I have one. It's worth less than $50. Is this a rare camera? 28,000 isn't a big production run for a camera, but rarity, like the descriptors antique and vintage, is subjective. For every one who adheres to a strict definition of the term "rare", a thousand more will throw it about carelessly. I've seen everything from Kodak box cameras to Argus C3s described as rare on eBay. Obviously those terms are meant to attract eyeballs and the money of those that don't know any better.

Sirius Glass · Jan 3, 2016

According to the Hasselblad Compendium by Richard Nordin only approximately 5,500 Hasselblad f/8 C 500mm lenses were made, so that should be rare. But in fact they are easily found at eBay and KEH.

How rare are they? (Really)

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