How popular were earl Exacta SLR's?

Ian Grant · Nov 20, 2017

Dan Fromm said:
Hmm. The Exakta had an an unparalleled system and was approximately the top 35 mm SLR until the Nikon F was introduced. What killed Exakta wasn't that catastrophe the RTL1000, it was the Nikon system and, more generally, modern SLRs, primarily from Japan. East Germany couldn't complete.

No the Exakta was surpassed by the Praktina just after WWII which was a far more professional system with motor drives, a bulk film back etc, but ultimately too expensive to manufacture.

The Nikon F had a greater effect on the Paktinas when launched in 1959, it was the first Japanese full system camera, I do'n't think it really affected the lower priced Exaktas they were still selling well in the UK a decade later. But you are right the move by Pentacon to the RTL100 couldn't compete with the cheaper Japanese SLR's which began to flood the market in the 1970's.

wiltw said:
Given that Exaktas were make in Dresden, Germany, which was a Soviet bloc controlled (East German) area after WWII, the brand suffered from the same relative 'backwardness' in design as just about all Soviet photographic products, and probably the same resistance to market success afforded to all the Soviet bloc products.

Praktina's were far better built and also made in Dresden, more akin to a Leica in build quality, and the CZJ lenses seem better lubricated than those for the Exaktas and Prakticas.

Ian

AgX · Nov 20, 2017

wiltw said:
Given that Exaktas were make in Dresden, Germany, which was a Soviet bloc controlled (East German) area after WWII, the brand suffered from the same relative 'backwardness' in design as just about all Soviet photographic products, and probably the same resistance to market success afforded to all the Soviet bloc products.

East german cameras were not backwards in design long time. To the contrary, they were the first universal use SLRs on the market, and there were a lot of "firsts" actually invented and introduced by Pentacon that are erroneously believed to have come from the Japanese.
I admit that there was a gradually fallback in attractivity to a western market. Reason was the inflexibility to work on and to react to the western market (neccessary for the eastern economy) due to the structure of export trading and later on due to restricted accesss to technologies as microelectronics.

Considering asthetic design Pentacon was employing respective designers much earlier than their west-german counterparts.
In general a lot of consumer goods in the West unknowingly were actually of GDR design.

blockend · Nov 20, 2017

Josef Koudelka shot his famous pictures of the Prague Spring on an Exakta. He used black and white movie film and had to keep returning indoors to refill his cassette. When he escaped to the West he was mostly closely associated with Leica rangefinders, and latterly the X-Pan.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2011/oct/26/josef-koudelka-prague-spring-photography

chip j · Nov 20, 2017

Kouldelka went down the tubes w/his X-pan shots. What a disapointment.

choiliefan · Nov 21, 2017

I've always thought the built-in film cutting knife was a cool feature. Wish my Robot Star had one of those.

Lachlan Young · Nov 21, 2017

blockend said:
Josef Koudelka shot his famous pictures of the Prague Spring on an Exakta. He used black and white movie film and had to keep returning indoors to refill his cassette. When he escaped to the West he was mostly closely associated with Leica rangefinders, and latterly the X-Pan.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2011/oct/26/josef-koudelka-prague-spring-photography

Not the X-Pan, but a Fuji G617 - "The Black Triangle" is still an incredibly powerful piece of work. The Gypsies work was also done with the Exakta & a 24mm lens (I think - I recall something to the effect of a Zeiss Jena, but could be wrong).

Sirius Glass · Nov 21, 2017

choiliefan said:
I've always thought the built-in film cutting knife was a cool feature. Wish my Robot Star had one of those.

In high school my friend complained that the Exacta would cut off his film for some unknown reason which he was using the camera for the school year book. After several rolls, he learned about the knife feature and thought it was great. He used the knife regularly. I do not believe any other camera had that feature.

AgX · Nov 21, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
I do not believe any other camera had that feature [Exakta filmknive].

KMZ "Start"

blockend · Nov 21, 2017

Lachlan Young said:
Not the X-Pan, but a Fuji G617 - "The Black Triangle" is still an incredibly powerful piece of work. The Gypsies work was also done with the Exakta & a 24mm lens (I think - I recall something to the effect of a Zeiss Jena, but could be wrong).

Ah, I got the wrong panoramic. You're right about the very wide angle lens, and I've also forgotten which one it was.

michr · Nov 21, 2017

choiliefan said:
I've always thought the built-in film cutting knife was a cool feature. Wish my Robot Star had one of those.

The film cutter is a cool feature, but it only makes sense on cameras with cartridge to cartridge loading, which was possible with the Exakta or cameras which took the Rapid cartridges like the Agfa Karat. According to the Internet the Okaya Lord has a film slicer, but that's a relatively obscure camera. On the other hand, I just know I have another camera besides the Exakta with this feature.

Lachlan Young · Nov 21, 2017

blockend said:
Ah, I got the wrong panoramic. You're right about the very wide angle lens, and I've also forgotten which one it was.

The 25/4 Flektogon would seem a reasonable suspect - and was definitely available in Exakta mount.

Pioneer · Nov 21, 2017

My Contarex doesn't need the internal knife if I use cartridge to cartridge loading. I just slide the back off (turning the keys on the bottom of the film back closes each cassette) and then use a scissors to cut the film. I guess it really doesn't need an internal knife at all if I cut the film in the darkroom and load the exposed film into the film tank right away. Maybe that's why the idea of an internal knife never really caught on.

wiltw · Nov 21, 2017

AgX said:
East german cameras were not backwards in design long time. To the contrary, they were the first universal use SLRs on the market, and there were a lot of "firsts" actually invented and introduced by Pentacon that are erroneously believed to have come from the Japanese.
I admit that there was a gradually fallback in attractivity to a western market. Reason was the inflexibility to work on and to react to the western market (neccessary for the eastern economy) due to the structure of export trading and later on due to restricted accesss to technologies as microelectronics.

The RTL 1000 became available in the 1970s, close to a decade after the Nikon F was outfitted with the Phototomic T metering prism add-on to the base Nikon F body...so in that regard, the RTL was seriously lagging the contemporary Japanese SLRs of the day, which mostly had TTL metering built into the standard body. The metal focal plane shutter in the RTL 1000 was equivalent in capability to the Copal Square metal shutter used in 1964 in the Topcon D-1 and 1965 Nikkormat FT, both having TTL metering. The lag is what I meant by calling it 'backwards'...it was launched at about the same time as the Nikon F2, which had an integrated meter (not an add-on meter only) .

blockend · Nov 21, 2017

Lachlan Young said:
The 25/4 Flektogon would seem a reasonable suspect - and was definitely available in Exakta mount.

You could well be right because I remember thinking Koudelka's lens was an odd focal length. I happened to be looking through "Exiles" on Monday, and the early wide angle shots were plenty sharp enough.

AgX · Nov 25, 2017

wiltw said:
The RTL 1000 became available in the 1970s, close to a decade after the Nikon F was outfitted with the Phototomic T metering prism add-on to the base Nikon F body...so in that regard, the RTL was seriously lagging the contemporary Japanese SLRs of the day, which mostly had TTL metering built into the standard body. The metal focal plane shutter in the RTL 1000 was equivalent in capability to the Copal Square metal shutter used in 1964 in the Topcon D-1 and 1965 Nikkormat FT, both having TTL metering. The lag is what I meant by calling it 'backwards'...it was launched at about the same time as the Nikon F2, which had an integrated meter (not an add-on meter only) .

TTL-metering:

Nikon Photomic T was introduced in 1965

The Exakta RTL 1000 was introduced in 1969

The Praktika Super TL was introduced even in 1968

I do not see see a lag of a decade.

wiltw · Nov 25, 2017

AgX said:
TTL-metering:

Nikon Photomic T was introduced in 1965

The Exakta RTL 1000 was introduced in 1969

The Praktika Super TL was introduced even in 1968

I do not see see a lag of a decade.

We are quibbling minor points...the RTL came out with a bulky add-on TTL meter LATE, compared to the Japanese SLRs with TTL metering...they were behind on the power curve. Do you think smartphones which are 3 years behind in matching features will do well now?!

The East German manufacturers had a rough road to navigate in period of Communist Bloc, both political and economic and technological, and they could not excell in that setting compared to the Japanese technology juggernaut. They certainly had excelled at one point in time, but the 1970s and 1980s was not that time.

AgX · Nov 25, 2017

In the 60s it was Pentacon to introduce the electric mount, when japanese manufacturers were still busy with rods and levers.

The same for the metalized caps. Later too copied by the Japanese.

wiltw · Nov 25, 2017

AgX said:
In the 70s it was Pentacon to introduce the electric mount, when japanese manufacturers were still busy with rods and levers.

Being first is not necessarily the guarantor of 'success' While Topcon was the first TTL camera, ultimately the brand was not successful in cameras. While Germany was a technology juggernaut in many areas such as jet propulsion and rocket engines and submarine design, it was not ultimately 'successful'. Metz is a wonder brand of flash (I own five!), but that did not help Metz avoid a rough period in recent years.

AgX · Nov 25, 2017

Metz for years had been world market leader for hammerhead flashes. But yes. success not necessarily goes on forever.
Being successful though is something you brought into the discussion, as deviation from technologic advance.

AgX · Nov 25, 2017

Interesting though is, aside of the japanese success in the end, that in Germany on the field of SLRs it was the East, with Pentacon, that won, in spite of all the difficulties.

For the rest it was western Agfa, who were most successful with their finder cameras.
Though... success is relative: Agfa made losses with them for over a decade, befor they pulled the plug.

tessar · Nov 25, 2017

Back to that creepy voyeur -- in a movie a huge telephoto lens looks way cooler than an ordinary pair of binoculars. I always liked how the James Stewart character blinded the villain ny firing those powerful old flashbulbs.

AgX · Nov 25, 2017

What lens model did he sport then?
I'm not that lens expert to recognize it just by looking at those stills.

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/window3.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

https://filmgrab.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/2738.jpg?w=937

The abbr. "Nr." to me hints at german origin.

If it was not Hollywood, what make was most likely: Germany? Japan?

Got it !!!

A Kilfitt lens

see here:
https://thejar.hitchcock.zone/files/carousel/40_01.jpg

https://cameratique.com/ebay/jlbeek/03102010pic52.jpg

drmoss_ca · Nov 26, 2017

My father had an Exacta VP for 127 roll film. When he died, my mother gave it to a local camera shop with the belief they would 'appreciate it'. When I got there it had already gone - into the bin.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 27, 2017

AgX said:
...
Got it !!!

A Kilfitt lens
...

Post #16.

anfenglin · Nov 27, 2017

The reason Exaktas are lefties is due to the first Exakta being a camera for 127 film, the most popular film in the 20s/30s when Exakta was developed by Karl Nüchterlein.
127 film has a back paper like 120 film, the numbers are the right way up when the spool is inserted on the right and being advanced to the left.
The first Exakta had no advance lever, it had a knob advance and a red window in the back.
This was kept all the way down to the last one, the Exa 1C.

Too bad Nüchterlein was killed in the war, imagine what could have been...

How popular were earl Exacta SLR's?

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