How old is too old (film)?

Tom Cross · Mar 9, 2016

Having never developed 120 film, I wanted to have a dry run. I spoke to my Dad and he said don't waste a film, I'll post you and old one to try. It arrived last week, and it was Jessops R100 with an expiry of July 1996! Seems a shame to waste it, I thought I might as well put it through a camera.

Is there anything I need to do to help with development after all that time? Or will it probably be ok?

darkosaric · Mar 9, 2016

1996 is not old. If it was not under direct sun for 10 years - it will be good. All depends how it was stored, but in any case 20 years is not that bad - you should get acceptable results.

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2016

It's actually EFKE R50, the 50 in the name is the Tungsten speed the daylight speed was about a stop higher which is why Jessops sold it as Jessop B&W R100. It's not so well hardened as Ilford or Kodak films so needs tight temperature control thoughout the complete processing cycle including washing. Don't over expose.

Just to be clear, it's the same sore Kb (35mm) and Pl (sheet) films:

Adox R14 (tngsten Din speed) + EFKE R25 (tunsten ASA/ISO speed) = Jessop B&W R50 (daylight ASA/ISO speed)
Adox R17 (tngsten Din speed) + EFKE R50 (tunsten ASA/ISO speed) = Jessop B&W R100 (daylight ASA/ISO speed)
Adox R21 (tngsten Din speed) + EFKE R100 (tunsten ASA/ISO speed) = Jessop B&W R200 (daylight ASA/ISO speed)

Here's an old EFKE Datasheet which shows more detail of the difference between Tungsten & DAylight speeds.

Ian

antmar · Mar 9, 2016

As Darko said a film from 1996 is not old. Form my experience I had great results from many films of that age. Higher ISO films are more sensitive than lower ISO and a film of ASA 100 kept in a cold place could be as good as new.
The best way is to shoot it at 50ASA and develop normally.

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2016

You lose the benefits of the unique emulsions of EFKE films if you overexpose so use the box speed 100 ISO.

Ian

Tom Cross · Mar 9, 2016

Thanks all. I'll expose it at box speed. The reason I wanted an old film was because I have never loaded 120 film into a spiral tank. I have visions of loading the backing instead of the film!! Thanks again.

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2016

A tip don't try loading the free end, undo the film and load the taped end into the reel first that's usually much easier.

Ian

darkosaric · Mar 9, 2016

As Ian says: Efke KB50 is great and unique film; not sensitive to red, gives little different result from standard today's films.

Here are couple of examples that I took with 35mm Efke KB50:

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Alan Johnson · Mar 9, 2016

I have some 1994 film very similar-Jessop R21= Efke 100, stored 60-80F.
I exposed it at EI =100 and developed in Beutler 1+1+8 for 9 min 20 C.
It has lost a bit of speed as the negatives are rather thin, but is otherwise OK.
Here is a 120 pic and a crop of part of the negative.

Tom Cross · Mar 9, 2016

Alan Johnson said:
View attachment 152134 View attachment 152136
I have some 1994 film very similar-Jessop R21= Efke 100, stored 60-80F.
I exposed it at EI =100 and developed in Beutler 1+1+8 for 9 min 20 C.
It has lost a bit of speed as the negatives are rather thin, but is otherwise OK.
Here is a 120 pic and a crop of part of the negative.

Thanks Alan - that's not bad considering the age!

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2016

Alan Johnson said:
View attachment 152134 View attachment 152136
I have some 1994 film very similar-Jessop R21= Efke 100, stored 60-80F.
I exposed it at EI =100 and developed in Beutler 1+1+8 for 9 min 20 C.
It has lost a bit of speed as the negatives are rather thin, but is otherwise OK.
Here is a 120 pic and a crop of part of the negative.

If I had an EFKE negative like that I'd be worried I'd screwed it up.

Ian

MattKing · Mar 9, 2016

Correct me if I am wrong, but won't the OP have just a bit of trouble with the curl of Efke manufactured film that was probably rolled on to that spool about a quarter century ago?

I don't know that that is where I would start my experience with loading 120 film on to a developing spiral.

trythis · Mar 10, 2016

I routinely shoot film expired in 1969. It was 320 ASA and I have to shoot it at 25 to get reliable results but even at 64 its not bad.

Tom Cross · Mar 10, 2016

MattKing said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but won't the OP have just a bit of trouble with the curl of Efke manufactured film that was probably rolled on to that spool about a quarter century ago?

I don't know that that is where I would start my experience with loading 120 film on to a developing spiral.

Hi Matt, the original idea was just to unravel it in daylight so I could see how it comes apart and how to separate the backing from the film. But when I got it I thought it seemed a shame to waste it!

bdial · Mar 10, 2016

The easiest way to separate the backing from the film is to tear the tape at the gap between the film and paper.
Along the lines of Matt's comment, you've chosen one of the more challenging films to learn with either in the dark or daylight.
So, you might as well continue with your plan.

Separating the film from the paper isn't so difficult. I've never had a problem distinguishing the two, though processing the paper is a fairly common noob mistake.
The way I do the separation is to tear the paper sticky that secures the end, then cup the roll in one hand and pull the paper with the other until you get to the film. Once you're at the film it will tend to curl into a tube on it's own, keep pulling, but make sure the film doesn't curl around the spool. At this point you should have the film curling into a tube next to the paper/spool/remaining film in one hand, and a length of paper held by your other hand. Keep pulling until you get to the taped end, separate the tape and discard the paper and spool.

Alan Johnson · Mar 10, 2016

Ian Grant said:
If I had an EFKE negative like that I'd be worried I'd screwed it up.

Ian

I made a second test, this 22 year old Efke 100 was exposed at EI 50, 100, 200 and developed in Beutler 1+8 14min 20C.
The EI 50 is still underexposed but the lines across the film visible in the first pic I posted have gone.
I believe a common rule for these old films is to allow 1 stop loss of speed for each 10 years of age, this seems to apply to Efke too.

tedr1 · Mar 25, 2016

To the original poster: My recent experience with out of date B&W film has taught me not to waste time shooting with expired film. I got low contrast result and when I increased development to increase the contrast the density went up but the contrast stayed below normal. If you just want to experiment with getting familiar with the materials go ahead but don't use out dated film or dev on a project. My materials were 20 yr old HP5+ and Delta 100 120 roll film, refrigerated.

removed account4 · Mar 25, 2016

some like to give extra exposure .their rule of thumb is 1 extra stop / decade.
have fun!

BAC1967 · Mar 25, 2016

I often shoot expired film, I don't expect to get perfect results from it but sometimes it gives a nice antique look. I find that using the 1 stop per 10 years rule is good until you get down around 5 or 2 ISO. The degradation seems to level off a bit at that point. I've never shot at less than 2. I just shot a roll of color film from 1962 that I semi-stand developed as black and white. I exposed it at 2 and it came out a little over exposed. A lot depends on how it was stored over the years but often that is unknown. This is an example of long expired Ansco Plenachrome Semi-Stand developed it in Rodinal 1-100 for 1 hour. I have no idea when it expired so I exposed it at 5 ISO.

Drum in a Lake by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

mosesfilm · Oct 11, 2016

I have some Soviet era Reversal film made by Tasma, expired in 1992. The ASA is 50 and I have some ASA 200. I shoot this film at their required speeds. When processed, I have a faint image (or none at all) as the emulsion is almost clear. I have repeatedly tried to change my development times , and still, the same result. I have film from Svema with the same expiration date and ASA settings, and it looks great when processed. I am using the native processing formula for these films. I have tried different developers, as well, to get an image and still no luck. Many say that the film was not stored properly, but I have acquired this film from several different sources all over Eastern Europe. Can this be an exposure problem with the Tasma reversal film? Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks.

carioca · Oct 11, 2016

Tom Cross said:
Having never developed 120 film, I wanted to have a dry run. I spoke to my Dad and he said don't waste a film, I'll post you and old one to try. It arrived last week, and it was Jessops R100 with an expiry of July 1996! Seems a shame to waste it, I thought I might as well put it through a camera.

Is there anything I need to do to help with development after all that time? Or will it probably be ok?

Regarding expiry date, 2,5,10,20+ years can be recovered, but you will have to accept the drawbacks (loss of sensitivity, lack of contrast, increase of grain, etc...). Don't expect a 20+ year old film with any remedy chemistry to result like it's newer brother, if still available.
I gave up 'fixing' expired film with remedy chemistry. I simply use fresh film and get predictable results, no needa to risk shooting unique images on film that I'm not sure about.
But then there is also that current trend of: 'Shot on expired film', that seems to turn crappy images into magic. I have a hard time understanding that magic.

pentaxpete · Oct 12, 2016

If you are worried about loading a 120 film into a spiral I did a VIDEO on that -- you can see it here :

derelict · Oct 12, 2016

BAC1967 said:
I often shoot expired film, I don't expect to get perfect results from it but sometimes it gives a nice antique look. I find that using the 1 stop per 10 years rule is good until you get down around 5 or 2 ISO.

This is information that I was hoping to find. I have a 220 roll of Portra 400 that I plan on shooting. It is expired but not 10 years, if I had to guess. I normally shoot that particular film at 200 so I am probably okay, right?

BAC1967 · Oct 12, 2016

derelict said:
This is information that I was hoping to find. I have a 220 roll of Portra 400 that I plan on shooting. It is expired but not 10 years, if I had to guess. I normally shoot that particular film at 200 so I am probably okay, right?

If it's less than 10 years you should be able to shoot it anywhere between 200 and 400 and still get good results. That's only up to one stop difference, that film has far more latitude than that. Unless it's been sitting out in the Nevada desert or on the dash of your car exposed to heat it's probably in good shape. I just shot a roll of Kodak Ultra Max 400 that expired in 2013 at box speed and got great results.

Old Tug Boat by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Take a look at this article on exposure latitude, they did test Portra 400:
http://petapixel.com/2016/03/29/exposure-affects-film-photos/

SanMiguel · Oct 12, 2016

I know this isn't much help to the OP but on a vaguely related topic I came across an old camera recently in my mother's house, a Kodak Instamatic 28, with a 126 film inside. It seemed to take and wind on OK, so I shot off the last couple of frames (told my daughter to stand there and smile) and thought nothing more about it. Until I got the negs back, that is. The colour, Kodak film dated from 1984, from when I was at college in Bath (England). There were some shots of Bath and some family shots, including some of my long-departed grandfather on it, and the couple of frames I shot of my daughter...so 4 generations of our family on one film spanning 32 years. The negs (lab processed) had a slight magenta colour cast, easily corrected in software (hope it's OK to say that on APUG). The camera had sat in a drawer in an unused bedroom for the last 30+ years - Northern Ireland, so safe to say a fairly cool, albeit damp climate.

I was pretty impressed with the sharpness and quality from a 1970s Kodak Instamatic camera - plastic body and lens, sunny/cloudy setting, no focus.

How old is too old (film)?

Tom Cross

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