How old can film be before it is bad?

[Ric Trexell]

I suppose this has been debated on this site and elsewhere, but the other day a guy posted some film for sale on CraigsList. It is Fuji Reala and F-chrome (120 format). It is 10 years old. I made him an offer, but then was thinking that maybe at that age it is still too expensive. He said it has been in the fridge all that time. So my question is, if film has been in a fridge for ten years, is it still usable? I don't want to do a wedding or anything like that, just do some lighting experiments, but is my offer of $1.00 per roll a waste of money, or would that be about right? I can get new film from Freestyle for close to $3.00 I think. Also, what changes could one expect? Do the reds go first or whites or does everything go south? Thanks. Ric.

 

[holmburgers]

Old film loses speed, refrigeration helps, freezing helps alot. The slower the film is originally, the better it holds up over time. I would also guess that black & white film preserves better than color (though I don't really know for sure). I've shot Fuji Reala 100 that expired in 1999 and it looked pretty good. Shoot it at 64 or 75 and I bet it'll be fine. I've heard about really old Velvia 50 being absolutely unaffected if frozen for 10+ yrs.

However, the best way to tell is just to try it, there's no way to say for sure HOW this film was stored and what not. Good luck!

 

[wclark5179]

"How old can film be before it is bad?"

When it doesn't work! Ha, Ha!

Not to be a smarty pants, but where the film is kept, temp., light, variance of those two, have a bearing on the life of film.

Just finished using some TMY 400 ASA that showed expired in 2002. Bought a bunch of it on a closeout! I'm cheap! Well, maybe just frugal.

Hope this helps!

 

[Brian Legge]

I've shot refrigerated film that expired in 1956. Granted, I rated it down quite a bit but the results were fine. That film was originally rated at about iso 64 or so I believe. I recently shot some iso 400 - also refrigerated supposedly - that was only 10 years out of date but in significantly worse condition.

Here are a few examples with film/date info:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4565246506
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4593105809
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4590786467
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/4714543996

I haven't shot much expired color. I'd expect more color shifts - the black and white has worked well.

In the end, it all depends on how well the film was treated.

I generally target a dollar or less per roll for expired film. I'm always hunting for 120 in particular, as I mostly shoot black and white and bulk loading fresh 35mm is relatively cheap.

 

[domaz]

If you use a color film that old you have to treat it yourself in a Formalin based stabilizer since the newer films long ago greatly reduced the need for that cancer-causing stuff. If you ask me it's not worth it.

 

[David Lyga]

Holmburgers is correct about the speed influencing the longetivity, i.e., the slower the better. But a few years ago I bought a couple of rolls of 100 ft TRI-X which 'expired' in 1958 (!) and I strongly doubt that it had been refrigerated all those years. I tested it and the final result is that four stops secures shadow detail with slightly more than normal development. The fog is there but is not all that intense. One trick I highly recommend is to do a clip test on a roll before blowing the whole roll on wishful thinking. A good paradigm is to give three stops for very old (more than ten years) and two stops for five to ten years. Interpolate before that. - David Lyga.

 

[wiltw]

Slower film holds up better than faster film, because cosmic rays go thru freezer walls to slowly fog the film

 

[DLM]

I buy quite a bit of expired film when I can. I don't shoot anything important with it, but I've never really had any that was no good with the exception of some 6+ yr expired Kodak P3200, which was expected. I've shot some Astia and Reala that was expired for about 10 yrs and it was fine, probably not perfect but good enough for me. $1.00/roll has usually been what I've paid, sometime much less but that's only when I've been lucky. I'd say it's a fair deal.

 

[alexmacphee]

I've also used film that was a few years past its date, with no problems. However, maybe it's just that I'm not always a trusting cuss, but I wouldn't believe a word about its having been in a fridge for ten years. A freezer I would believe, because it's easy to lose stuff at the bottom of a freezer, which is intended for long term storage, but a fridge?

 

[Ric Trexell]

Thanks to all that have contributed their opinion. I haven't heard back from the guy, but that is ok. I have bought expired film that was 3-4 years out of date, and had decent results, but 10 year stuff was a whole new thing. I think if he wants to deal I will tell him about my friends on APUG talking me out of it. Ric.

 

[PhotoJim]

10 years and unfrozen... I wouldn't pay for the film. I'd take it for free to experiment with, and that's all.

 

[magkelly]

I'm about to shoot some film from 2005 that someone gave me just for fun. I'll let you know how it turns out, He said it was in the fridge at his studio, but I guess we'll see, won't we?

 

[tac]

For what it's worth, I have a brick of ilford pan-F (ISO50) that I have been using as a bookshelf decoration for twenty years; i.e., room temp storage, exp '89. Out of curiosity I loaded a roll in the rolleiflex, iso set at 25, strobe lighting, and processed at 1.3x normal time, with a dab of bezotriazole solution (0.30cc of 10% solution in isopropyl per 10 oz d76 1:1); looks beautiful. Good shadows and detail in highlights (white T-shirt). I immediately stuck the rest of the brick in the freezer!

 

[brucemuir]

I bought a fairly large lot of 220 160NC and 400NC from 2001

The 160NC was okay but the 400NC had shifted green.

Seller claimed it was cold stored.

 

[PhotoJim]

"Cold" means refrigerated as well as frozen. If it were merely refrigerated, I could easily see colour shifting occurring, and it would happen sooner in the faster emulsion.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Color transparency shifts to magenta as it ages.

 

[andrewkirkby]

I bought a bunch of Velvia RVP 220 from a guy in Germany. Had been frozen since purchase in 1995.

Second frame from the first roll:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/backindauk/3784025071/in/set-72157623830770853/

If film is kept frozen, it keeps quite well. That said, i have shot 2 year old expired Astia (fridge kept) and it showed definite colour and contrast shift or loss.

If you want to be safe, just buy fresh film. Old unknown film is for experimenting only.

 

[magkelly]

Dumb question probably but I've never used film straight from the fridge. By freezer do you guys mean deep freeze or regular freezer and if so do you leave it out or in the fridge for a while before you use it after taking it out? I've got the expired film I was given in the fridge now, but I was wondering how you go about freezing/fridging it and using it after if it has to be warmed up or not. I would think so. Wouldn't cold film be more brittle when trying to load it?

 

[Brian Legge]

I've been grabbing film from the freezer, throwing it in a ziplock bag and heading out. I often shoot it within an hour or two. No problems so far, though I'm not the most precise person around.

 

[jordanstarr]

I have a 100ft roll of tri-x I used to spool into 120 film for experimenting, which expired in 1982 (older than I am!). It works okay but it loses speed and I don't trust the results 100%. I don't have the time or patience to screw around with really old film unless I'm just experimenting. Can you imagine getting that "perfect shot" only to have blotches and other defects that come with aging film? Not worth it for me personally. It might serve it's purpose though if you're looking for interesting and "out of the norm" effects.

 

[andrewkirkby]

Usually i will put the frozen film into the fridge the night before i want to use it. I have no problems using the film straight from the fridge, although i do prefer leaving it in canister or wrapper if it is humid outside. That said, I've never had a problem with film that has been in the freezer and put straight into a camera back.

 

[clayne]

I'll use anything.

 

[alexmacphee]

Dumb question probably but I've never used film straight from the fridge. By freezer do you guys mean deep freeze or regular freezer and if so do you leave it out or in the fridge for a while before you use it after taking it out?

Household freezer, which usually goes down to -20C or so. When I remember, I take the film out the night before, but I don't put it in the fridge to thaw, just a cool place.

I've also found, however, that when I'm in a hurry, and have forgotten to leave the film out overnight, it's normally thawed and usable within an hour or so anyway, especially if I've put it in a pocket.

I don't know if they're available where you are, but the Really Useful Box Co make superb plastic storage boxes with lids held on by handles on the boxes that snap over the sides of the lids. The 1.7L size is perfect for 35mm, and hold between 20 and 24 standing on end in the box, depending on whether the film is in the carton or just the inner canister. The 1.5L Extra Long pencil box is ideal for 120 film, as its width is perfect for a 120 film in its carton, and can store two layers of about eleven in a layer.

I have about a hundred assorted rolls (135 and 120) in these boxes in the freezer. What I've started doing lately is keeping half a dozen assorted films in a food box in the fridge for ready use, the kind of food box with a sealing ring in the lid where the lid snaps down over each of the four sides, and replenishing that box from the freezer. In the last couple of weeks I've been using stuff with expiry dates around 2005, and it's been perfect.