How Much Would You Pay For a Portrait Sitting, and Is $125 *Really* Too Much?

FilmIs4Ever

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I'm trying to convince this studio that that is a perfectly reasonable price. They don't think I can compete with other studios in that pricerange because I don't have a "name". Is photography really that much of a f&*%ing gimmick these days?

And they keep telling me I can't shoot film because it costs more. All of my number-crunching says 5-10% expense increase over digital. Is that sort of loss really too much to justify film?

Finally, I have five years of on-off formal training. Doesn't that move me into a league above the mall photographers who dropped out of high school? I thought it did.

How much formal training do I really need before I am "that good"?
 

SuzanneR

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I charge $225 for a portrait sitting for up to four people... and I consider that very reasonable... very reasonable. I probably should charge $325 to $350. My prints start at $75 for a 5x7, and I've been thinking about dropping those and only offering 8x10's or maybe charging the same amount for both 8x10 and 5x7. I'm not as keen to print 5x7's, and they don't take any less time than an 8x10, and the price of the paper isn't that much less.

Anyway, not worth it to me to do it for less. If someone wants a cheap, er... I mean "we just want one small picture", then I recommend Picture People or Sears.

It's important to figure out you costs, your time, and how you value your work, and YOU decide how much you need to charge. I've done enough jobs now, that I know it's not worth it to me at all, to charge any less.
 

Photo Engineer

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It depends on the customer as well, and the type of print. Color is more demanding on the photographer than B&W to get the skin tones right and the lighting just perfect. Some custome portraiture from well known photographers can run as high as $15,000.

So, the range of possible prices is very wide. I think that Suzanne has state it well and I think that you are just beginning. Your price, if you make some money on it, is quite reasonable for a B&W portrait.

PE
 

railwayman3

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Looking from the UK, I'd say that your price of $125 (about £65) is very reasonable indeed if your work is of a competent and reasonable professional standard.

As Suzanne has already indicated above, you have to remember all the overhead costs which you need to cover to maintain a professional studio, even before a single customer comes through the door....it makes the cost of a film and a few sheets of paper seem the least of the problems!

And, above all, if you have the training and skill to do a professional job, don't undervalue yourself. If you a beginner, you may need to prove yourself, of course, but starting at too low prices can make it very difficult to subsequently increase them.
 

doughowk

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I'd suggest finding a niche market, such as an alt process contact print. Otherwise, you're trying to convince people that your film image is better than the next digital dude with prints from Costco. I've started doing gold-toned kallitype portraits, for example; but would imagine platinum/palladium has better panache.
 

removed account4

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FilmIs4Ever said:
How much formal training do I really need before I am "that good"?
Click to expand...

you are as good as your portfolio shows you are.
a wise lady i worked for pointed to to the portraits in the
showcase window and said they were the proof that she
was able to make portraits, not a degree or formal education.

as for the price ..
that is not very much, how much film
does that include ?

good luck!
john
 

Nicole

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Clients will pay your prices if they believe you are worth it, this goes for any industry. In photography, you will find many other people giving you "better advice".

My humble advice is to believe in yourself and your own work without being influenced by others. If these people are depressing you with all their advice, change the conversation topic - or find other people to talk to. I've been told by many, many people (some of them very close to me - others not so), right from day 1, I will never be successful in "my" photography. I've never paid any attention to that (in fact find it quite amusing these days) and keep on doing what I like to do. Pricing - don't compare your prices to others, that is not important. How good is the quality of your work? If you are truely passionate about your work with an undying determination to succeed.... then always follow your heart. You'll end up leading the way and the rest will follow you.
 

df cardwell

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How much formal training do I really need before I am "that good"?

Figure out how much money you want to make,
then become good enough to do it.

Sometimes it takes a long time to transform yourself.
 

Barry S

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If you're trying to compete with mall photographers or Sears and lose money, $125 is ridiculously low. If I were looking to hire a portrait photographer and the rate was $125, I'd most likely assume it was someone hard up for cash that barely knows how to use their Canon Rebel. Believe me, you don't want the kind of clients that shop on price alone. If you can't charge a decent rate and make sure you're worth it--you need to find another way to make money.
 

2F/2F

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It sounds like you are asking a very low price to me, for any type of camera. Film vs. digital is a "work flow" decision that is up to whoever runs the place. I wouldn't bother making the point of using one over the other. There is no better camera to use than the one provided for you by someone else!

Quite honestly, a standard photographic day rate is around $300, so for eight hours of total work, you shouldn't get any less than that, plus printing fees, etc. $150 or so for a half day, which is what I would charge for the sitting time. Then you have to charge for everything beside your time as well. I would say $300 for the sitting, proofs, and a print by an mildly established photographer with a good portfolio is *very* reasonable, and you probably wouldn't make much of a living charging only that much.
 

mabman

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Something several local wedding photographers have said in the last year (while I don't have any aspirations in this regard I think it's good advice): don't try to compete at the bottom end of the market - many people with basic digital cameras now consider themselves "photographers" and are trying to squeeze a few bucks out of the process. In the portrait business, you've also got Sears, Walmart, etc. doing basic packages. I live in a place where people are notorious for being bargain-oriented (eg, really cheap), but even so, several higher-end wedding photographers thrive - people *are* willing to pay for quality in combination with a distinct vision they like.

Define what you're selling: a) decent-to-very-good portraits generally and b) if you're printing yourself (or having it done optically for you) you've also got a hand-made "artisan" final product with all that entails - attention to quality, long-term archival properties (if b&w), different "look", etc.
 

Steve Roberts

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Take the $125 sum, subtract the total cost to you of film, paper, electricity, rent, rates etc., divide by the number of hours you'll spend on the taking, developing, proofing, printing, invoicing, etc. and you'll arrive at a figure approximating to the amount per hour you're working for. I suspect that with a starting price of $125/hr that figure will be staggeringly low.
Nonetheless, everyone has to start somewhere and there's arguably a lot more mileage in having a dozen customers at that price than having no customers at a higher price if you are able to accept a low profit margin until you build up a clientele/reputation.
Good luck in your venture, whatever route you take!
Steve
 

Steve Smith

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A bit of advice I was given a while ago is that you have 1000 chargeable hours of work per year. That works out at 20 hours per week that you can actually charge people for, the rest of the time you will be doing peripheral tasks.

Work out how much you want to earn in a year and add to that your operational costs for the year (in thousands). That figure in dollars/pounds/euros is your hourly rate.


Steve.
 

jp80874

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jnanian said:
you are as good as your portfolio shows you are.
a wise lady i worked for pointed to to the portraits in the
showcase window and said they were the proof that she
was able to make portraits, not a degree or formal education.
john
Click to expand...

Remember Edward Weston left school before getting a degree or paying their rip off price. If I remember correctly he spoke of 10,000 portraits a little after mid career. You are as good as your work. You have to learn how to sell the value of your work to the right buyer. There are a lot of Chevy-Ford-Honda-Toyotas out on the street and fewer Lexus-Porsche-Cad-Linc-BMWs. There must be a value difference beyond transport. You have to define the difference between your fine art and a passport photo. They both look like the subject.

John Powers
 

Frank Hoerauf

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Listen to what Nicole just said and you will be just fine, I could not have said it better myself.
 

df cardwell

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Good practice for a Portrait business needs to vary according to your locale, and clientele.

If you will be working in a place where folks have little appreciation for traditional photography
(no slight intended) and perceive that they are providing YOU with the favor of gathering their family together for YOUR benefit, you may do well by not charging a sitting fee.

These are often the clients who would never consider paying $25 for an 8x10 gold-toned platinum print, signed by Strand, Steichen, and Weston, they will OFTEN be the same client willing to pay $3000 to $5000 for a 30 x 40 ink jet print to hang in the Great Room of their MacMansion. Search your soul, and act accordingly.

Consider too, what the immediate economic future holds for your location. Some folks think that the world economy has never been better, while others are sure that the economic difficulties related to mortgage banks, Wall Street, and bubble investment have yet to begin.

Word of mouth is the best marketing device you can employ. The single best thing you can do - especially in a metropolitan area - is to become involved in your neighborhood, your church, your kids soccer team, a gardening society or dog fancier's association (or OTHER group of people doing something you care about) Give your business 5 to 10 years to bloom. Be generous with your time, professional in your conduct, and freaking brilliant with your work. Avoid the cutting edge of technology, don't buy a bunch of crap, and find a couple superb labs. Live frugally, and burn your credit cards.

Keep your day job.
 
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Frank Szabo

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FilmIs4Ever said:
Is photography really that much of a f&*%ing gimmick these days?
Click to expand...

As far as the majority of what's out there is concerned, yes.

And they keep telling me I can't shoot film because it costs more. All of my number-crunching says 5-10% expense increase over digital. Is that sort of loss really too much to justify film?
Click to expand...

If you've done the numbers and you're happy with them, don't worry about it. By the way - who is "they"? This devil has been causing trouble for years but he/she is really hard to find. Listen to people - tell "they" to go to hell.

Finally, I have five years of on-off formal training. Doesn't that move me into a league above the mall photographers who dropped out of high school? I thought it did.
Click to expand...
and
How much formal training do I really need before I am "that good"?
Click to expand...

If you'll read the bios of many of today's artists, you'll always see a reference to "formal" education. This seems to matter to those that can afford to plunk down $30 - $100k plus for a painting or sculpture, regardless of said painting or sculpture's quality and/or artistic value. Is that the market you want to get into? It's more about politics than ability.

Formal training equates to what I just said - the real question is "Can you make a photograph people are willing to purchase from you for a fair price that covers your costs and provides you with a profit without having to wave your "credentials" in their faces?"

Personally, I'd tell you to check into a different occupation - one that values education more highly than results, perhaps something in corporate Amerika.

One fellow I am familiar with is Peter Gowland - his "sitting" fee was a bit over $5k, the last I knew (that was many moons ago). His reputation for quality photography is such that it wouldn't matter if he were a sandbox dropout.

Not trying to be mean here - just my honest feelings.
 
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JBrunner

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In the portrait mill, training matters only as far being marginally competent, nothing more. The objection to a decent rate, and push for digital as a "cheaper" medium screams portrait mill. If that is your market target, they are right. If it's not, you need to go on your own, or find somebody else to partner with.
 

TheDreadPirateRobins

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I agree with the comments made about not trying to compete with the low end. If you do that, you'll end up just barely making it and nobody will really appreciate what you are doing that's special/different than simply an inkjet portrait mill in a mall somewhere.

As far as the business end goes, I wouldn't hesitate to talk to other people who have small businesses and see what their experiences are. My wife and I own the neighborhood bookstore, and we are CONSTANTLY looking over our profit and loss statements and adjusting our projections and our strategies to respond to what's going on with the sales. One thing is that you can put all your heart and soul into the thing and then have an entire month of lackluster sales that barely cover the rent, much less the accounts payable, the bills, and anything that might be left over for you to take home.

Figure in that you won't have a constant stream of business right away and probably not for a few years or more until you establish a client-base and a reputation (hopefully a good one) and plan accordingly. It's certainly not impossible to start a business and be successful, but it takes a lot of work.

Good luck!
 

DMCarbo

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Well to me $125 sounds like a low price if anything....I get $150 for Real Estate Head Shots ! An actual serious Portrait is $300 - $350 and ...(I wont say the D word) Those prices are not Film. Its all in how you sell it and getting the Client into and excited about your Vision.
 

Steve Roberts

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Steve Smith said:
A bit of advice I was given a while ago is that you have 1000 chargeable hours of work per year. That works out at 20 hours per week that you can actually charge people for, the rest of the time you will be doing peripheral tasks..
Click to expand...

My employers have been paying me for 37 hours a week for the past thirty years. Hope they don't read your post, Steve, or some bright spark in Payroll will come chasing me for a big refund!

Steve
 

df cardwell

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1000 chargeable hours of work per year.

A farmer is not paid an hourly wage, nor is a photographer. Both only are paid for delivering their product.

Ah, the bonny life of a cubicle worker ! Your pay is calculated upon doing 2 to 3 hours of actual work a day,
and having 8 hours to accomplish it. What a racket !
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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Ehrm.... Cubicle worker speaking up... Dear Don, you are generalizing.
But it is nice when every time the pay check comes through, it clears. Helps pay for film and paper.

If I was to ever get paid for doing portraits - I worked the details out - I would charge in the realm of $350 for a sitting, and that would include one 8x10 that I am happy with. The rest is extra. The time spent at the sitting, possibly hours, and the time spent in the darkroom with film / proofing, and eventually possibly scanning negs... It's a lot of time spent!

I know photographers that charge a lot more, and I know those that charge about the same.

- Thomas
 
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