How much will Kodak film prices increase?

Ste_S · Jan 1, 2020

Henning Serger said:
@pentaxuser:
Please read my postings attentively: My intention was only to correct some completely wrong statements about film production.
My topic was not about possible mistakes companies may have made in the past. This discussion also would not be very helpful and a waste of time, because if all manufacturers would have made no mistakes at all in the past, the situation today would not be fundamentally different.
It wouldn't have changed the huge and fast recent demand increase in colour film. And it wouldn't have changed the fact that all manufacturers need sustainable prices to invest in new, updated / modernised and / or additional machinery, to invest in new products and to invest in new, young highly qualified employees, especially engineers and chemists.
And that is the reason why not only Eastman Kodak, but also Fujifilm, Ilford + Co have increased prices or will increase prices in the short and mid term. No matter to whom I have talked to in the industry, all have confirmed that about 15 - 30% (dependent on the product) higher prices compared to the 2018 price level are needed for the absolutely necessary mid- and long term investments. To keep film alive and well / flourishing for the next decadesAnd all current manufacturers - with no exceptions - want to continue with film production for the next decades (and therefore need the investments).

Best regards,
Henning

I'd disagree that price rises of 30% are good to keep film flourishing. When a company starts doing that they're a low volume/high cost premium product locked into an ever decreasing niche.

pentaxuser · Jan 1, 2020

[QUOTE="GLS, post: 2239724, member: 87346"
A 120 pro pack of Portra 400 is now listed at £52.51 and £52.86 at Ag Photographic and Silverprint, respectively. Frankly that's a bitter pill to swallow when you are accustomed to buying it for £34.99, and once that old-price stock is gone I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon start selling it for £45 or less...[/QUOTE]
So we have Amazon who may not be the cheapest but is competitive now selling 120 Portra 400 for £10.50 a roll

Boy, you really would need to be a Kodak colour film die-hard to be prepared to buy it at this price and in anything like the same quantities. Will the "good news Kodak" really continue to increase its revenue with these prices in the rest of the World outside of the U.S where, I accept, the lower prices are much more easily tolerated?

It might be that in fact the rest of the world doesn't really matter in terms of revenue anyway

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · Jan 1, 2020

As had been said here it is worth looking at different suppliers, e.g Morco or Speedgraphic etc. As we've discussed before in the UK prices csn vary wildly between suppliers for the same products.

Agulliver · Jan 2, 2020

Amazon UK is currently listing 5x24 exposure FP4+ for £27.99 which is a good price....though I'd rather buy a 100 foot roll and get more than 20 rolls out of it for just over double the price...elsewhere. However I will concede that if I wanted 5 135 cartridges of 24 exposures, then that's a good price. It's not Amazon's regular price though, it's some sort of new year promotion. Generally Amazon prices aren't great, and as I have no interest in Prime, I pay postage whether I buy from Amazon or some other online retailer. To be honest I prefer to go to Process Supplies in London but that happens to be fairly convenient for me.

Agulliver · Jan 2, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
As had been said here it is worth looking at different suppliers, e.g Morco or Speedgraphic etc. As we've discussed before in the UK prices csn vary wildly between suppliers for the same products.

And note well please, those price variations have nothing to do with Kodak Alaris...who sell to distributors at *the same price*. It is these distributors who sell onto retailers at different prices, and then the retailers who finally set the prices you pay. A distributor which deals more in the consumer films such as Color Plus and Gold might have very high prices on sheet film and Ektar. A distributor which mostly deals in the pro films might have better prices on sheet films and not even bother with Color Plus.

GLS · Jan 2, 2020

Agulliver said:
and as I have no interest in Prime, I pay postage whether I buy from Amazon or some other online retailer

You don't need Prime to get free delivery on Amazon orders, you just need to spend £20 or more.

perkeleellinen · Jan 2, 2020

There's a lot of movement in film prices although the general trend is, of course, upward (same as everything except my wages).

I have no local shop so I buy online and what I do is to keep an eye on five or six online shops as well as ebay and amazon and when I notice a deal on my favourite films I buy. This only works if you can keep some stock; it's no good if you run out and must buy today, I tend to buy 5-10 rolls when I spot a good deal.

darkosaric · Mar 10, 2020

I was unpleasantly surprised by new prices of Kodak films in March 2020:

Kodak Tri-X 400: 8 euro (9$)
Ilford HP5+ : 6 euros (6,8$)
Kentmere 400: 4,2 euro (4.7$)
Fomapan 100: 3.4 euro (3.84$)

pentaxuser · Mar 10, 2020

darkosaric said:
I was unpleasantly surprised by new prices of Kodak films in March 2020:

Kodak Tri-X 400: 8 euro (9$)
Ilford HP5+ : 6 euros (6,8$)
Kentmere 400: 4,2 euro (4.7$)
Fomapan 100: 3.4 euro (3.84$)

Wow so even more Kodak good news. If even a small percentage of our purchases in life consisted of similar good news then I wonder how we'd afford it!

pentaxuser

Agulliver · Mar 11, 2020

My local camera shop has said that the price rises are not affecting sales at all. People are still buying film and the shop has once again run out of Color Plus.

138S · Mar 11, 2020

Agulliver said:
My local camera shop has said that the price rises are not affecting sales at all. People are still buying film and the shop has once again run out of Color Plus.

Price increase may harm in the mid/long term. As time passes one buys less film, shoots less, more people drop and less people engage.

Many we buy in a web shop, to save in shipping (and for convenience) we usually buy what we have to use in a certain time span, but we take a close look to the Total because we usually have a budget.

In the EU we have witnessed that 8x10" color film has disapeared from most web shops.

It will be diffult to say in what amount this will harm (or not) present film flourishment, and in what markets. Me, I love present film flourishment, but I see it at risk.

Sirius Glass · Mar 11, 2020

Agulliver said:
My local camera shop has said that the price rises are not affecting sales at all. People are still buying film and the shop has once again run out of Color Plus.

That has been my observation. People still keep on buy film. For what one gets for film, it is still a bargain.

138S · Mar 11, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
That has been my observation. People still keep on buy film. For what one gets for film, it is still a bargain.

My experience it's the counter, I know several artists/photographers that shot less film because of price, still shooting film but shooting more digital for those shots were medium is not to make much a difference, now they think it two times before pressing shutter release.

warden · Mar 11, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
That has been my observation. People still keep on buy film. For what one gets for film, it is still a bargain.

Yep, it's cheap entertainment for casual shooters, and top quality at a reasonable price for non-casual photographers.

Agulliver · Mar 12, 2020

The shop I refer to mostly deals with amateur enthusiasts, though does have some professional customers. I would assume that Color Plus is mostly being sold to amateurs though it is fantastic value and good quality it is Kodak's cheapest film. That's the one which flies off shelves but they've also been selling unexpectedly high quantities of the new Ektachrome at £15 a pop, and Fuji 400H. Raw numbers of sales are still increasing despite January price hikes, the growth in sales (by number of units) is still taking place.

OBviously this is just one shop in one town.

NB23 · Mar 12, 2020

Agulliver said:
OBviously this is just one shop in one town.

The other day I walked into a Local store and purchased 40 rolls of Hp5 120.

I’m sure the owner now thinks that the industry is picking up.

also, and of the highest importance, is the fact that I purchased all those rolls because the price was very good (lower than BH photo). If it was 0.50$ more expensive. I would have purchased 10 rolls. And if it was 1$ More expensive, I’d have purchased Zero.

What is there to be learned from this? That a high price is not what’s going to keep the industry healthy.

Another good example: while tri-x bulk was 125$ each, I purchased Zero. There was no way in the world I’d be giving my money for that product.
Once it fell at 85$, I purchased 16 bulk rolls at once.

BradS · Mar 12, 2020

Hey, that's just exactly what they taught us in Econ 101 ! It's like an example right out of the text book...

darkosaric · Mar 12, 2020

It is not high Kodak film price, but more difference between Kodak and equaly good Ilford/Harman films. If all films are 10$ - ok, it is as it is. But 9$ for Kodak, and 6$ or less for other equaly good films... that I see as a problem for Kodak.

BradS · Mar 12, 2020

Let's hope that nobody tells Fuji that Kodak raised prices.

radiant · Mar 12, 2020

One year ago 10 pack of Tri-X cost 61 euros. Now it is 75 euros. That is 18,7% price increase. (prices from fotoimpex)

NB23 · Mar 12, 2020

101, Baby! 101!

BradS said:
Hey, that's just exactly what they taught us in Econ 101 ! It's like an example right out of the text book...

pentaxuser · Mar 12, 2020

vedostuu said:
One year ago 10 pack of Tri-X cost 61 euros. Now it is 75 euros. That is 18,7% price increase. (prices from fotoimpex)

Yes, I am not sure what the rate on inflation is In Finland but here in the U.K. it is under 2%.So nothing like 18.7%. It seems to me that the reply I am liable to get from the "good news" film brigade is: "Good, as that means you can afford to spend more on film and not worry about its price"

Is that really sustainable as an approach to film pricing?

I haven't seen even a hint that these price increases are justifiable nor a hint that with apologies they are justified or at least it is a one-off increase and from now on film prices will only increase with inflation.

Sometimes I feel we are not far away from the famous Rolls Royce salesman's haughty retort to a customer who asked about mileage per gallon:" Sir, if you have to ask about this then I suggest that you cannot afford a Rolls Royce" i,e. this is a niche product whose market consist of consumers who will pay whatever the price is for this unique product

Sooner or later film makers be they Kodak, Fuji, Ilford or any other will have to release that film is not in the Rolls Royce product range - well not if they want to really ensure that film revives.

I am sure that there are film users who will pay more and regard film as a product that is essential to them even if this means that it takes a much larger percentage of their income.

They make their presence known here on Photrio - of that there can be no argument . Are they a big enough market to sustain film's alleged appreciable revival?

pentaxuser

MattKing · Mar 12, 2020

The price increases are caused by both inflation and costs that originate with the large number of suppliers that the film manufacturers depend on - and those costs are outside of the control of the manufacturers.
If the suppliers that the film manufacturers depend on keep their products available at prices that are stable then, and only then, will the film manufacturers be able to control their wholesale, FOB the factory prices.
And even then there may still be rapid changes in price, because distribution costs are also outside the control of the manufacturers, and they may very well exceed the costs of manufacture.

pentaxuser · Mar 13, 2020

OK, Matt. Sounds as if this only leaves us the option of singing "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" in terms of what we can do about film prices. My fear is, completely unfounded some would say, that what people will do is either buy less or the new buyers will "move on"

pentaxuser

removedacct1 · Mar 13, 2020

pentaxuser said:
I am sure that there are film users who will pay more and regard film as a product that is essential to them even if this means that it takes a much larger percentage of their income.
pentaxuser

It all boils down to “affordability”, doesn’t it? For those who can barely afford to keep buying film at 2019 prices, the 2020 prices are suddenly painfully out of reach, at least if those people want to continue using the same volume of product. Of course there are options, of which one is: use less of it. Reducing your film usage by ten percent will likely be a negligible change.

To say that film now “takes a much larger percentage of their income” is an exaggeration when here in the US we are talking about one dollar more per roll (generally) and so unless one is buying hundreds of rolls of film every month or two, it can hardly be described as “a much larger percentage of their income”, now can it? For those in some European countries, the increase is closer to 20%, which I agree would be harder to swallow. But there are still more affordable alternatives that perform surprising well for “budget” products.

I have inventory of several emulsions in 8x10 size, bought when most were close to $100 per 25 sheets. Now it’s typically $130 for the types I buy, so when I’ve used up my stash, I’m likely to use far less sheet film than I have been doing. What will I do instead? Well, I can make 8x10 inch collodion glass negatives for approximately $1.50 per negative. That’s far more affordable than film is right now. There are always alternatives, should you find you simply can’t justify the expense of whatever you’ve been using.

How much will Kodak film prices increase?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency