How much will Kodak film prices increase?

Paul Manuell

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Agulliver

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Much as I don't like price increases.....if it ultimately means that Kodak can keep up with demand and keep colour film in production then I prefer it to the alternative....
 

Tom Kershaw

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Paul Manuell

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soulstar89

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has speedgraphic increased prices? i was doing reasearch to find stores and noticed the sliverprint had increased prices since the last time i checked them
 

soulstar89

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Paul Manuell said:
Fuck me, their 160 Portra 5x120 pack is expensive. I bought 2 boxes only this week from my local shop in Penzance at £7.80 per roll, but Silverprint's work out at £9.77 per roll!
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im sure other shops like 7dayshop will have them a little cheaper than the rest. its just annoying as now when doing editorial shots or shoots in general you must now increase your fee.
 

soulstar89

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Agulliver said:
Much as I don't like price increases.....if it ultimately means that Kodak can keep up with demand and keep colour film in production then I prefer it to the alternative....
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i fully get that increases are going to happen but the margin is crazy. 5-10% ok that is fair. im not one to bitch and moan but considering only three companies makes colour film at present (lomo is prob old stock) we re being held to ransom. either way it is what it is. you either buy or dont buy i guess
 

Vincent Peri

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I have this vague feeling that these significant price increases are going to seriously dent the resurgence in film use, especially by new, young shooters.

Hope I'm wrong...
 

pentaxuser

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Ironically such large price increases may be best sustained by young ( as in young and single) still being subsidised by Mum and Dad whose income is largely for use on non-essentials. It is they who can shrug and bear such increases until they get to the point where responsibilities increase and devour their income and/or the novelty effect of using Kodak colour film or any film wears off.

Regular users of Kodak film who feel they cannot do without it may bear the large price increase but do what such "addicts" do in that situation which is buy less.

I don't think such increases can be the way to Kodak's revival

pentaxuser
 

removedacct1

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Don't care. I'll buy Kodak films anyways. I may use less of it and be more careful how I use it, but I will certainly continue to buy it.
 

MattKing

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soulstar89 said:
considering only three companies makes colour film at present (lomo is prob old stock) we re being held to ransom
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You think that that is bad - there is only one source (other than Fuji) for all the cellulose triacetate substrate used in all the motion picture film stock and (almost all) the roll still film stock. Kodak, Ilford, InnovisCoat, whomever, they all have to buy from one factory.
And by the way, the different retail prices in the UK may very well relate to the fact that different retailers are using different distributors to supply them. Kodak Alaris does not sell direct to retailers.
 

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paulbarden said:
Don't care. I'll buy Kodak films anyways. I may use less of it and be more careful how I use it, but I will certainly continue to buy it.
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+1. E100, like its forbears, is indispensable; likewise, the same for Tri-X. As well, I will remain loyal to the Ilford films I use (PanF+, FP4+. HP5+).
 

Agulliver

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The pound isn't exactly weak, it surged against the $ minutes after the exit poll on election day. And is holding it's own against the euro currently.

I get what Kodak are doing. The biggest % increase is in the cheapest amateur film such as Color Plus....though as it's so cheap that will result in a relatively small £ increase per film. So hopefully the young people trying out film won't really notice that much of a change. Also bear in mind that UK retail prices include 20% VAT. Unless the shop is aiming at business users the price quoted must include VAT, unlike US vendors who quote without sales tax. That automatically makes British and other European prices look crazy compared with US retailers....that said, the UK price for Gold, and Ultramax were already insane compared with US prices.

Kodak cannot win. Keep prices low and not only do they lose money but they cannot keep up with demand. People complain that the films are constantly out of stock and unavailable.
Raise prices to actually make some money and invest in increasing production capacity....films are available but people complain that they cost too much.

I am trying to look at the bigger picture and the future, I don't see what choice Kodak had. a 5% increase wouldn't allow them to invest in the increased production that they clearly need. We can argue they shouldn't have decreased capacity years ago but that's hardly helpful at this juncture. Finger pointing "I told you so" never helped anyone. You want film? The price is gonna increase, at least in the short to medium term.
 

Agulliver

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Regarding Silveprint, 10 years ago I used to buy from them a lot as their range was (and remains) great...but I noticed they were becoming unncompetitive price wise a few year ago and haven't ordered from them for at least four years. There are better suppliers out there such as Speed Graphic, Process Supplies (careful they quote without VAT), Sharif Photographic and others.

Lomo film isn't expired old stock, other than occasional offerings such as the "aged like fine wine" Ferrania stuff they had for a very short time a while back. What they seem to do is use Chinese film to the old Kodacolor VR recipe for their regular colour negative films...or possibly film coated in Rochester and finished in China. It's definitely fresh and it's definitely good. For their other wacky stuff I suspect Inoviscoat.

It's certainly true that KA don't distribute directly, I've been told that by Henning and by my local camera shop. And prices for Kodak products vary in the UK depending on a number of factors including distributor used, amount ordered by the shop, whether the retailer has a brick/mortar shop or is solely online...just looking at Color Plus 36 exposure 135, it can go from anything from £3 a roll to £5.50
 
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pentaxuser

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So is it your conclusion that Kodak users will only have to " bite the bullet" once in terms of this very large price increase and having bitten can expect future price increases to be in line only with inflationary cost rises or at least be no greater than other film companies rises?

Henning has told us of the bottlenecks that are causing the demand to exceed supply. I presume these are the kind of bottlenecks that would not have existed in fKodak film heyday so can only presume that despite what has also been said by others about Kodak's inability to easily downsize it has in fact has been able to downsize. Indeed it has downsizes too much it appears.

Presumably it actually scrapped the equipment so there is no question of simply starting it up again which presumably would not have resulted in such large increases in price?

Demand according to Henning is exceeding supply so the increases in investment is to meet this increased demand presumably. I wonder if the current demand that exceeds supply is sufficient to sustain Kodak in profitability at this new demand level and thus this increase in price is a "one-off" or is it the case that KA whom I believe set prices, has decided that it has to" make hay while the sunshine shines". If it is the latter then what KA does to prices may bear little of no relationship to the actual cost of investment.

Depending what the real reason is for the current price increases then it may be impossible to make any prediction of future increases other than to say KA will follow whatever agenda, as yet unknown and undeclared, it is currently following

pentaxuser
 

destroya

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dammed if they do and dammed if they dont. its a price increase to keep them in business. all companies do it. bbut why is it that kodak seems to get unfair, in my mind, treatment. yeh past actions but cmon people. what would you do in their position? digital people bithced to high heaven when adobe went to a subscription based pricing model years ago. but now its died down and most dont remember. a year from now, will it really kill you to pay a more to enjoy a hobby, or a preferred method of shooting?

please, move on. there is enough hate in the world. think of the positives. we still get to shoot film

john
 

removedacct1

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I have information directly from a retailer here in the US about price changes in 2020. I cited a specific example: Kodak Tmax 400 in 120 roll format: the current price is $6.60 a roll, and it will be precisely one US dollar more once new stock arrives in 2020 - $7.60 per roll. I imagine most products will increase by a similar amount. I don't think this is unreasonable at all. I can afford it because I NEED to continue shooting film. Making photographs keeps me sane and fosters joy and enthusiasm for life. Its hard to put a price on joy. Photography has always been an expensive hobby.
So, I may use a bit less Tmax film next year, and I will be more careful how I use it, with the goal of optimizing the result, but I will certainly continue to buy Kodak products.

PS: that dollar-per-roll price increase? That is one dollar more the consumer pays. Guess how much the price increase is for the retailer? $1.04
So this particular retailer is eating the 4 cents per roll in order to be as friendly to the consumer as possible. So if I were you, I wouldn't b*tch too much about prices.
 

MattKing

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pentaxuser said:
Henning has told us of the bottlenecks that are causing the demand to exceed supply.
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The bottlenecks that Henning refers to are not the only ones.
My source(s) indicate that all the film manufacturers are much more "cash poor" than when film was in its heyday, and all of them are looking at issues of limited numbers of sources for and limited access to required components, aged and/or limited capacity machinery, and much higher distribution costs.
They just don't have the capital to be able to "stock up" on inventory.
Some of the components necessary for Kodak's recently re-introduced E6 films require custom manufacture by third parties, with at least a several months lead time. And the services of the suppliers of those components are in high demand, from customers who compete for those services. Kodak (and others) no longer have the resources to stock-pile those components, and their orders are sufficiently small (and relatively unimportant) that they don't have the necessary clout to ensure priority from those suppliers.
The film manufacturers are looking at 2019 and wondering - will this surge of demand be consistent and growing, or will it be just a short term thing. If the former, than it will be worthwhile to incur the substantial risks of making the large capital investments necessary to modernize and expand existing machinery. If the latter, taking those risks will be a quick way to (another) bankruptcy.
For an example, as I understand it, in 2019 Eastman Kodak sold more 65mm camera film stock to the movie industry than they have in any year in the last 25 years, and there are a number of projects scheduled for next year to make it likely that that will continue next year as well. That being said, critical portions of the manufacturing machinery for that film - the perforators - were the same machines that were used in 1959 when they made the film that "Spartacus" was shot on.
If you want to help moderate price increases, help keep volumes consistent and increasing by buying and using film.
 

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MattKing said:
and much higher distribution costs.
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Well, today distribution costs are very low, e-commerce is quite efficient, and shipping from wharehouses is paid by consumers.

Eastman Kodak has a high distribution cost because Alaris is in the middle, and Alaris is in the middle because EK had debts with UK pension plan. IMO Kodak film high distribution cost comes from financials, not from operation.

MattKing said:
If you want to help moderate price increases, help keep volumes consistent and increasing by buying and using film.
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I'm not that optimistic, my guess is that their pricing policy is not based in ex-factory cost. I don't see a bet to help expand user base and making profit from high volume, what I see is an abnormal competition EK vs Alaris to see what company takes more profit from the final price.

If Alaris is for sell then they may want to show short term profits to lure investors, this is conflicting with mid/long term profits.
 
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MattKing

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Eastman Kodak transferred all their still film, chemicals and colour paper marketing capacity to Kodak Alaris as part of the bankruptcy. The original employees of Kodak Alaris were almost all ex-Eastman Kodak or Eastman Kodak subsidiary employees. Essentially all the warehousing capacity was sold off - the responsibility for warehousing (if any) being assumed by the third party distributors that buy through Kodak Alaris and sell to retailers. Neither Kodak Alaris nor Eastman Kodak warehouse product (in a meaningful amount).
Eastman Kodak is a commercial printing company, with a division that still makes film. With the exception of certain motion picture products, it has no direct dealings with any end user.
Kodak Alaris also has no direct dealings with end users - it sells only to distributors, who bear the substantial costs associated with shipping (and any warehousing) of product.
 
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